Another take on Female Interest/Clueless Guys

[GESancMan]

Inspired by the Multiple Obvious Clues thread.

I am most definitely one of those guys. I never, ever see the signs (not that it happens all that often). A woman would have to smack me across the head with a 4x4 to get the point across.

I recently got back in contact with a good friend of mine that I haven't spoken too much in the past five years. Yesterday he told me this story about how he recently slept with this girl he knows, and she's since been giving him the cold shoulder, and he can't figure out why. Then he let her name drop, and it turns out she is someone I knew as well, but haven't seen in ten years.

The very first thing I thought of was that back then, those ten years ago, this girl was totally hot for my friend. It was blindingly obvious to everyone but him.

Then I thought of the aforementioned thread. Why the hell can I see it when I'm an impartial observer, but not if it's happening to me?! My best guess is one of the many reasons covered in that thread: I don't expect it to happen, so I don't see it.

Any other experiences like this?

[Omar Little]

You might not be clueless...the women you know, might just not be into you.

[Lakai]

Or it could be that you're too scared to take a chance on asking a girl out that you mentally suppress any evidence of her interest in you. Better off thinking that no one is interested rather than knowing that you're a coward.

When it comes to a girls interest in someone else, there is no danger of you being a coward and you can clearly see all the evidence.

[hajario]

Originally Posted by Lakai

Or it could be that you're too scared to take a chance on asking a girl out that you mentally suppress any evidence of her interest in you. Better off thinking that no one is interested rather than knowing that you're a coward.

When it comes to a girls interest in someone else, there is no danger of you being a coward and you can clearly see all the evidence.

Well said.

[kapri]

I agree with what everyone else said. I think fear of rejection plays a part in people claiming not to see the clues when someone is interested in them, and that some people are being disingenuous when they say they can't see it.

I suffer from a similar condition, I think; if a man is over-nice to me, I begin to wonder whether he's interested. Sometimes they are, but usually when men I like act interested and are friendly and sooo nice to me, I eventually they discover they have a wife/girlfriend/fiancee/boyfriend. This happens to me all the time, so I have decided to assume that no matter how friendly someone is, he's not interested and is most likely "taken." This especially holds true for the kind, intelligent, handsome men I meet. They are never available.

[Sunspace]

Originally Posted by hajario

Well said.

That does not necessarily hold. During university, I had no idea who was interested in whom; I couldn't tell that two of my friends were interested in one another until they left hand in hand from a party to spend the night together. I did not see the initial signs of interest between them.

Some of us just can't tell.

[hotflungwok]

Originally Posted by Lakai

Or it could be that you're too scared to take a chance on asking a girl out that you mentally suppress any evidence of her interest in you. Better off thinking that no one is interested rather than knowing that you're a coward.

When it comes to a girls interest in someone else, there is no danger of you being a coward and you can clearly see all the evidence.

Or it could be that the women in question think they're giving obvious hints, but are really giving inscrutable or conflicting messages and guys are tired of having to call the soothsayer in to read the signs.

[Robot Arm]

Originally Posted by GESancMan

I am most definitely one of those guys. I never, ever see the signs (not that it happens all that often).

If you never see it, how do you know how often it happens.

I never see it, either. I just assume it's not there; doesn't even occur to me to look for it.

[breaking-reality]

Originally Posted by hotflungwok

Or it could be that the women in question think they're giving obvious hints, but are really giving inscrutable or conflicting messages and guys are tired of having to call the soothsayer in to read the signs.

What are obvious hints? If a woman hints to wanting to hang out sometime without actually specifying when/where, do you take that as a hint she wants you to ask her out, or just that she's being friendly?

There are times when I think the only way to make it MORE obvious that I'm interested is to just ask them directly out, which I usually don't have a problem with (though we females get nervous about rejection too). But if I'm dropping hints like crazy and he's not seeming to get it, I usually just figure that's his way of saying he's not interested.

[Slow Moving Vehicle]

Originally Posted by kapri

IThis especially holds true for the kind, intelligent, handsome men I meet. They are never available.

That's because they already have boyfriends.

[Green Bean]

Another factor may be that she is giving off signals that the crush-ee can't see.

If she's trying to play it cool, she may be avoiding sending unambiguous signs of interest directly to the crush-ee. But outside observers may notice some some things like:
--She watches him when his back is turned
--She perks up with interest when his name is mentioned
--She brings him up in conversation more often than might be expected
--she makes efforts to be where he's going to be, when from his perspective, she just happens to be there. This might include asking if he's going to be someplace.
--Her friends' behavior with regard to the two of them because they know what's up
--Carving his initials into her bare flesh and then covering it up

In other words, she may be giving more clues to the outside observers (that she hasn't told directly) than she's giving to the object of her affections.

[Sunspace]

If it makes the OP feel any better, here's a ten-year-old thread from me with the same lament...

[Lamia]

Originally Posted by Sunspace

That does not necessarily hold. During university, I had no idea who was interested in whom; I couldn't tell that two of my friends were interested in one another until they left hand in hand from a party to spend the night together. I did not see the initial signs of interest between them.

Some of us just can't tell.

I don't doubt that this is true, but the OP specifically said he can tell when he's observing other people.

[Wesley Clark]

Originally Posted by Green Bean

--Carving his initials into her bare flesh and then covering it up

Yeah, thats a fun one. Something I like to do when I have a crush on someone is to take a copy of the bible and cut out the letters, then arrange them on posterboard to spell the other person's name over and over again.

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by Wesley Clark

Yeah, thats a fun one. Something I like to do when I have a crush on someone is to take a copy of the bible and cut out the letters, then arrange them on posterboard to spell the other person's name over and over again.

Me? I sacrifice sheep to her and spell her name in blood on the nearest church walls.

[Jragon]

Missed Edit: In all seriousness, I really do think it's about pressure and suppression, with a mixture of what Green Bean mentioned. I've had old friends who go to college in another state flirt with me when we talk, and it's pretty glaring. Why do I notice? Because they're an insurmountable distance away and nothing is going to happen. That girl who people tell me clearly has a thing for me but currently has a boyfriend? Yeah, I figured that out a while ago, because it would be a seriously dick move to act on that so I'm in no "danger." (In case your wondering, yes this interest does mysteriously vanish from my perspective after they break up). Anything that has a chance of happening? Hahahahahahahahaha, yeah, even if I notice I'll rationalize it away.

I did go to a leadership seminar once, which was making some point or another, and one example he gave about *mumble* was that some people (especially first timers or people who have had long dry spells) are more afraid of a yes than a no because then they have to either change their lives, or will have to consciously worry about someone else's happiness. I'm not sure I agree, but it was interesting.

[GESancMan]

Originally Posted by Robot Arm

If you never see it, how do you know how often it happens.

I never see it, either. I just assume it's not there; doesn't even occur to me to look for it.

A fair question. There have been times where I put two and two together after the fact - long enough after that any window of opportunity I may have had was gone. There have also been times when a friend has asked what the hell my problem was; again, too late to do me any good.

I suppose it might happen more often than I think (though I doubt it), but I'm such an idiot about it...

[Markxxx]

If someone man or woman, is interested in you, you'd know.

These "clueless" guys are the result of the woman (in this case) are hedging their bets. There isn't enough interest, just enough so that the woman has a fall back in case.

In other words she's looking and you're on her list. Usually about 2 or 3 places from the bottom of it.

I don't mean that as a negative, we all have lists and someone has to be on the bottom of it

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by slowmovingvehicle

That's because they already have boyfriends.

Oh, that's clever! You mean, like, all the good men are gay!

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by Malacandra

Oh, that's clever! You mean, like, all the good men are gay!

Don't explain the joke!

Originally Posted by Markxxx

If someone man or woman, is interested in you, you'd know.

These "clueless" guys are the result of the woman (in this case) are hedging their bets. There isn't enough interest, just enough so that the woman has a fall back in case.

In other words she's looking and you're on her list. Usually about 2 or 3 places from the bottom of it.

I don't mean that as a negative, we all have lists and someone has to be on the bottom of it

That may be true some of the time, but it if you read the other thread there are two types. There are types like Robot Arm that literally don't know, and there are types who "notice" but have more of an internal war going.

However, the latter can be just as bad* as the former, and for purposes of a discussion like this raises a new point: why can people like this ACCEPT it when somebody else is being hit on, but fight against the same signals when given to them?

You're also presupposing that all people pick up all social cues the same. What is obvious to one person isn't obvious to another. To bring this away from romance for a moment, since it muddles the conversation with things like considering long term relationships and whether they would or wouldn't want to, an old friend invited me to casually hang out with them once and I thought they were just telling me what they were doing, it wasn't until later that they said the way the described it and the words they used meant they were inviting me and they thought I just didn't want to go when I said that I was going to walk around and I might bump into them later. She kept mentioning things that were nostalgic to both of us related to what was going on, and I just figured it was idle chit-chat and catching up, because she said she missed talking to me since it'd been about a year. Then just started saying things like how she was going to go walk around and see some of the participants practice and then go in. I did not see the implied "you should come!" that she told me was obvious. I still don't see it when looking back, but apparently it was obvious.

* Worse, sometimes, because that sort of overanalyzing and bias can even cause them/us to mistake genuine, EXPLICIT interest for some sort of oblique cruel joke, which I think was also mentioned in the other thread.

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by Jragon

You're also presupposing that all people pick up all social cues the same. What is obvious to one person isn't obvious to another. To bring this away from romance for a moment, since it muddles the conversation with things like considering long term relationships and whether they would or wouldn't want to, an old friend invited me to casually hang out with them once and I thought they were just telling me what they were doing, it wasn't until later that they said the way the described it and the words they used meant they were inviting me and they thought I just didn't want to go when I said that I was going to walk around and I might bump into them later. She kept mentioning things that were nostalgic to both of us related to what was going on, and I just figured it was idle chit-chat and catching up, because she said she missed talking to me since it'd been about a year. Then just started saying things like how she was going to go walk around and see some of the participants practice and then go in. I did not see the implied "you should come!" that she told me was obvious. I still don't see it when looking back, but apparently it was obvious.

Okay, sorry, I was in a rush and this makes no sense. I tried to be vague and then changed my mind halfway through. Here's the story in coherent form:

I like to take meandering walks, usually I walk out to my University's campus. One day there was a marching band competition that's rather important around here, it was about a month and a half before they usually hold it so I wasn't expecting it. I sort of stumbled upon it and had no idea what was going on (it was so early I thought they were doing clinics or something).

So I bump into my friend (year younger than me, met in middle school) with her little sister (who is still in high school but quit band her sophomore year, so they went together to have fun reminiscing). I ask her what the hell is going on, she tells me it's <competition> and I'm baffled. We talk about regular "I haven't seen you in a while" stuff. And she points and says "we're going that way to see the other bands and talk about old band stuff. " (along those lines) I would have gone with her if I knew she was inviting me, but I thought she was just closing the conversation, especially since she was with her sister and I thought they were doing bonding time or something. I say "Okay, I'm taking a walk, maybe I'll bump into you." She says, "Okay... maybe, bye" and we walk off in separate directions.

Apparently she wanted me to come with her, but I'm not even seeing an implicit invitation there, which is apparently obvious to her. Some people just don't pick up social cues, or at least they don't pick up the SAME social cues.

[Green Bean]

Originally Posted by Markxxx

If someone man or woman, is interested in you, you'd know.

These "clueless" guys are the result of the woman (in this case) are hedging their bets. There isn't enough interest, just enough so that the woman has a fall back in case.

In other words she's looking and you're on her list. Usually about 2 or 3 places from the bottom of it.

I don't mean that as a negative, we all have lists and someone has to be on the bottom of it

Or she's "hedging her bets" in the sense that she doesn't want to throw herself at the guy because a. she's afraid of rejection, and/or b. she knows that all things being equal, he'll likely be more comfortable being the aggressor.

[msmith537]

One problem that Clueless Guys tend to be very passive when it comes to meeting women. So it tends to puts the burden onto the girl to indicate her interest. And girls who are forward enough to indicate to a guy they are interested in no uncertain terms generally don't go for very passive guys. And if you are too passive and don't reciprocate interest, she will assume there is none on your part and move on.

One thing I've noticed is that their indicators are extremely subtle. She's not going to sit in your lap and touch your face (unless you are in a strip club or something). It might be as simple as shooting a look your way when she thinks you aren't looking.

[Robot Arm]

Originally Posted by Jragon

That may be true some of the time, but it if you read the other thread there are two types. There are types like Robot Arm that literally don't know, and there are types who "notice" but have more of an internal war going.

However, the latter can be just as bad* as the former,...

I don't know about that.

Originally Posted by Green Bean

Or she's "hedging her bets" in the sense that she doesn't want to throw herself at the guy because a. she's afraid of rejection, and/or b. she knows that all things being equal, he'll likely be more comfortable being the aggressor.

Yes, but c. all things are never equal. Everybody has their own comfort level with being the aggressor.