The Walking Dead; 3.08 "Made to Suffer" (open spoilers)

[alphaboi867]

Mid-season finale tonight. AMC's been airing a season 3 marathon all day. Glen & Maggie are being held captive in Woodbury. Rick, Daryl, Oscar, & Michonne are on their way to Woodbury. The Governor knows about the prison, and Merle & Daryl are about to be reunited (also the Gov's going to find out Merle lied about Michonne). No more episodes 'till spring.

[Cat Whisperer]

My husband and I are having a disagreement - he says that the mom who had a chunk bitten out of her arm is going to turn, so they should leave her or kill her. I say that if the bite doesn't cause her to bleed out or get an infection and die, she'll be okay, since everyone is infected now and small bites and scratches don't matter. What say you all?

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Just can't let a black guy live, can they.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Ew. Ew.

[BeeDubU2]

Originally Posted by IvoryTowerDenizen

Just can't let a black guy live, can they.

I was just thinking the same thing! Time for a new Background Useful Minority. I wonder if Michonne has spoken too many words to be classified as the weeks BUM?

The fight with Michonne and the Guvna was gruesome.

Where did the new crew come from?

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by BeeDubU2

I was just thinking the same thing! Time for a new Background Useful Minority. I wonder if Michonne has spoken too many words to be classified as the weeks BUM?...

Michonne is getting alot more talkative. I loved her interaction w/ Penny, before she realized Penny was a zombie. I also liked Carl this episode; it's like he was a minature Rick. Probally thinking what a wus the teenager was that he couldn't even watch somebody else put down his mother.

[BrassyPhrase]

I screamed so loud at some points that a neighbor's dog barked. I live in a (rented) house. I don't talk to my neighbors. I don't know them. I've not seen anyone that doesn't have a small dog if they have a dog.

My lhasa apso/shitzu mix ran in the room when she heard the other dog and barked at me.

That was an intense episode.

[misstee]

Originally Posted by IvoryTowerDenizen

Just can't let a black guy live, can they.

They replaced him with a new token black guy from the other group of survivors.

[BrassyPhrase]

Originally Posted by misstee

They replaced him with a new token black guy from the other group of survivors.

I'm cynical. I did think "they went thru two black guys already?"

[AuntiePam]

Didn't it look like Penny was responding to the music, and to her dad's voice? I suppose it could have been bad acting, but she seemed to calm down a bit when he spoke to her. I felt for him.

Chuckled at the convict assuming Carol was a lesbian because of her haircut. Grossed out at Glenn's makeshift weapons. My, but he's come a long way.

Glad to see Cutty from The Wire as Tyreese. It'll be interesting to see how he and Rick get along.

Surprised that the Governor didn't take Andrea's gun, but he's distracted.

[Cat Whisperer]

I thought Carol was kind of stupid for correcting him - next thing you know, he's all, "How you doin'?" Silly woman.

So, shall I assume none of you know the answer to my question?

[misstee]

To answer your question-


We wondered if the bite caused her legs to quit working because they were carrying her- perhaps a bite causes blood infection to render her unable to walk? I think with even a smallish bite, a person is doomed, IMHO.

[DigitalC]

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

My husband and I are having a disagreement - he says that the mom who had a chunk bitten out of her arm is going to turn, so they should leave her or kill her. I say that if the bite doesn't cause her to bleed out or get an infection and die, she'll be okay, since everyone is infected now and small bites and scratches don't matter. What say you all?

Bites are always almost immediately deadly, it's been like that the entire show. Everyone being infected just means everyone turns when they die for any cause, apart from that there is something to the zombie bites that kills. One of the prisoners was apparently going to die from being stabbed by a broken zombie bone while Michonne was perfectly fine taking a lap full of zombie buts on top of a bullet hole so they are not entirely consistent on how it works. But bites have always been a death sentence.

[Cat Whisperer]

Hmm, now I'm wondering where I got the idea that they weren't - I think it was from Satchel, and Rick cutting off his leg to save his life.

So, in spite of the show being somewhat inconsistent on this point, a scratch or bite from a zombie means a death sentence, even if the bite is a small one?

[Cat Whisperer]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Didn't it look like Penny was responding to the music, and to her dad's voice? I suppose it could have been bad acting, but she seemed to calm down a bit when he spoke to her. I felt for him.<snip>

I didn't see her reacting to anything except the bowl of brains the Governor had put out for her.

You know, if I had a chunk of glass sticking out of my eye socket, what I would want more than anything else was a piece of gauze pressing on it!

[DigitalC]

Yup. Small ones just mean you last a little longer. Jim lasted over a day in season one.

[DigitalC]

Actually I guess we don't know how much time went by between the bite and when she croaked, they mighta spent the night in there.

[voltaire]

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

Hmm, now I'm wondering where I got the idea that they weren't - I think it was from Satchel, and Rick cutting off his leg to save his life.

It's Hershel. And the whole reason he cut off his leg so quickly was so that he could keep the zombie bite "infection" from spreading to the rest of his body.

So, in spite of the show being somewhat inconsistent on this point, a scratch or bite from a zombie means a death sentence, even if the bite is a small one?

There no real inconsistency, just unknown "magical" properties of zombie bites. I don't think scratches ever do anything; the zombies much bite flesh with their teeth.

[DigitalC]

Everyone seemed pretty convinced the prisoner that got stabbed by a broken zombie bone was going to turn and had to be killed, I doubt they were just assuming.

[voltaire]

Originally Posted by DigitalC

Everyone seemed pretty convinced the prisoner that got stabbed by a broken zombie bone was going to turn and had to be killed, I doubt they were just assuming.

Everybody turns when they die, it had nothing to do with what he was stabbed with.

ETA: Oh wait, "prisoner"? Are you talking about another episode? I don't remember another zombie bone stabbing.

[DigitalC]

It wasn't a bad stab, it was just a cut behind his shoulder. Dude was perfectly fine.

[Cat Whisperer]

Originally Posted by voltaire

It's Hershel.

Doh!

And the whole reason he cut off his leg so quickly was so that he could keep the zombie bite "infection" from spreading to the rest of his body.<snip>

Yeah, that makes sense.

[DianaG]

Wait, are we talking about Tiny? Because he was definitely bitten. Or are we talking about the guy Maggie stabbed? Because he bled out, just like he would have she'd stabbed him in the neck with a non-zombie bone.

Poor Darryl.

And for serious, we have Tyrese now, so Oscar has to die? Fuck you Walking Dead, that's starting to seriously piss me off.

[AngelSoft]

Sadly, the first thing I thought of when I saw Tyreese was 'Well...I guess that means Oscar's gonna die.' Of course, I reassured myself that would be stupid and completely transparent. The fact that they can't seem to have two main black men on the show at the same time. I mean, when we all called Oscar the replacement black guy after T-Dawg died, I know at least I was only joking around. I didn't seriously think that was the reason he died. But...well now I'm not so sure.

But besides that. Great episode. Though I wanted to strangle Andrea. I mean, how completely blind can you be to what's going on around you? Honestly, I just really dislike her as an actress and a character. She just rubs me the wrong way.

[Quimby]

The opening confused me at first. I thought it was a flashback and the place the group was sneaking into was Woodbury, which they would subsequently join and we we were being introduced to characters that helped our characters take down the Governor or at least escape him.

[alphaboi867]

Originally Posted by Quimby

The opening confused me at first. I thought it was a flashback and the place the group was sneaking into was Woodbury, which they would subsequently join and we we were being introduced to characters that helped our characters take down the Governor or at least escape him.

I thought the exact opposite; that it was a flashforward to the ruins of the prison after a Woodbury attacked with the heavy weaponry they got off the National Guardsmen they massacred.

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

I thought the exact opposite; that it was a flashforward to the ruins of the prison after a Woodbury attacked with the heavy weaponry they got off the National Guardsmen they massacred.

That's what I thought too. So I guess the whole backside of the prison is just a gaping hole where there was some earlier explosion? And people can easily just walk in? Doesn't seem like it's so secure to me.

Was I the only one rooting for The Governor in his fight against Michonne? I cannot stand that character one bit. Then I was hoping Andrea would put a bullet in her.

[John Mace]

I was jumping back and forth between those two scenarios. Flashback or flashforward?

Carl is definitely becoming the most interesting character. And of course Michonne doesn't tell Andrea what's going on. Kee-rist!!!

[AuntiePam]

Have Rick's people always had those weapons? What happened to being low on ammunition, from an episode or two back? And did I see Maggie put a bullet in someone who had been shot and was down on the ground?

I don't like Andrea either, but things were happening rather quickly, and I think she'll come around.

I like that Michonne went after the Governor, but I don't understand why she had to do it right then.

[An Gadaí]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Didn't it look like Penny was responding to the music, and to her dad's voice? I suppose it could have been bad acting, but she seemed to calm down a bit when he spoke to her. I felt for him.

Chuckled at the convict assuming Carol was a lesbian because of her haircut. Grossed out at Glenn's makeshift weapons. My, but he's come a long way.

Glad to see Cutty from The Wire as Tyreese. It'll be interesting to see how he and Rick get along.

Surprised that the Governor didn't take Andrea's gun, but he's distracted.

Ha, only thing I particularly liked about the episode other than the very ending was seeing Cutty again. He's a great actor. Seems odd that Michonne didn't just slice the gubner in two once she got her sword again.

[AngelSoft]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Have Rick's people always had those weapons? What happened to being low on ammunition, from an episode or two back? And did I see Maggie put a bullet in someone who had been shot and was down on the ground?

I don't like Andrea either, but things were happening rather quickly, and I think she'll come around.

I like that Michonne went after the Governor, but I don't understand why she had to do it right then.

I'm assuming they gained access to the weapons stored in the prison. I mean, you're not gonna find smoke bombs many other places at that point. And yeah, she shot Oscar, in the head I'm guessing, to either put him out of his misery and/or prevent him from turning.

Michonne probably figured she wouldn't be getting another chance at getting to his home so easily again. Rick and the guys provided a hell of a distraction that allowed her to sneak in relatively easily.

[enalzi]

Was anyone else surprised that no main character died? I was sure someone was going to bite it in this episode. And no, Not T-Dog is not a main character.

[Fubaya]

I'm starting to hate the way nerds write action scenes. While on the run, Carl can spin around with a pistol with a cumbersome homemade suppressor, snap fire one handed at a target inches from a good guy and score a head shot every single time.

I can only assume the director was with the guards in this shot saying "Everybody just pretend you don't see them! Keep looking in that direction but don't acknowledge the actors out in the open making lots of movement, rattling equipment and talking at a low conversational level!"

Why does Rick care where Michonne was? She helped them get in, obviously went to pursue some unfinished business of her own, and they got out without her. Who cares where she was? It would have been nice to have an extra person but she never promised to get Rick's back and doesn't owe them anything. She helped them by telling them about Glenn/Maggie and helping them find the place and get in.

[Face Intentionally Left Blank]

Originally Posted by Fubaya

I'm starting to hate the way nerds write action scenes. While on the run, Carl can spin around with a pistol with a cumbersome homemade suppressor, snap fire one handed at a target inches from a good guy and score a head shot every single time.

I can only assume the director was with the guards in this shot saying "Everybody just pretend you don't see them! Keep looking in that direction but don't acknowledge the actors out in the open making lots of movement, rattling equipment and talking at a low conversational level!"

Why does Rick care where Michonne was? She helped them get in, obviously went to pursue some unfinished business of her own, and they got out without her. Who cares where she was? It would have been nice to have an extra person but she never promised to get Rick's back and doesn't owe them anything. She helped them by telling them about Glenn/Maggie and helping them find the place and get in.

She could've made everyone more at-ease by TALKING, but I think the actress gets paid by the word. She disappeared, things went bad, T-Dawg 2.0 died, Daryl's gone, and she reappears. It's safe to say she aggravates everyone as much as she does the viewer. Rick's got to think she has ulterior motives based on her not talking and her disappearing act.

[Reverse]

Originally Posted by Fubaya

I'm starting to hate the way nerds write action scenes. While on the run, Carl can spin around with a pistol with a cumbersome homemade suppressor, snap fire one handed at a target inches from a good guy and score a head shot every single time.

I would argue that the person getting irate over gun use in a television show about zombies is the real nerd.

Also, people, it's not rocket science: zombie bites are venomous. It's one of those things that is a cornerstone of most zombie fiction. Just go with it.

[Fubaya]

Originally Posted by Reverse

I would argue that the person getting irate over gun use in a television show about zombies is the real nerd.

Not irate, it just makes me laugh and takes me out of a scene wondering why they have him do they impossible. Maybe next week he will build a radio from a coconut.

[Critical1]

Originally Posted by Fubaya

Not irate, it just makes me laugh and takes me out of a scene wondering why they have him do they impossible. Maybe next week he will build a radio from a coconut.

I am not trying to say that shot wasn't improbable, but seriously give a child any skill and hours of practice including life and death situations and you are bound to see some feats that are hard to believe...but don't take my word for it, hit up youtube for about a billion videos of young people doing things that are incredible.

[Ellis Dee]

Not related to this episode, I just rewatched The Mist recently. Apparently the TWD casting people were fans, as they cast three people from it: Andrea, Dale and Carol.

[Reverse]

Originally Posted by Ellis Dee

Not related to this episode, I just rewatched The Mist recently. Apparently the TWD casting people were fans, as they cast three people from it: Andrea, Dale and Carol.

Both The Mist and the first season of the Walking Dead are Darabont joints.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Originally Posted by Quimby

The opening confused me at first. I thought it was a flashback and the place the group was sneaking into was Woodbury, which they would subsequently join and we we were being introduced to characters that helped our characters take down the Governor or at least escape him.

I thought this;

Originally Posted by alphaboi867

I thought the exact opposite; that it was a flashforward to the ruins of the prison after a Woodbury attacked with the heavy weaponry they got off the National Guardsmen they massacred.

My husband, that.

[Quimby]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Have Rick's people always had those weapons? What happened to being low on ammunition, from an episode or two back? And did I see Maggie put a bullet in someone who had been shot and was down on the ground?

She was putting a bullet in the bald guy's head so he wouldn't rise.

Another thing: I saw elsewhere that apparently Rick froze when that guy with the gun was approaching him because he saw him as Shane. I completely missed that.

[Just Ed]

Interesting cliffhanger for the hiatus, plus a lot of action. Good episode.

One thing I'm surprised hasn't been pointed out here (and I usually am opposed to nitpicking of minutiae) is Maggie's failure to shoot Merle when she had the opportunity. Can't see any reason she would not have pulled the trigger at that point.

[Folacin]

Originally Posted by Just Ed

One thing I'm surprised hasn't been pointed out here (and I usually am opposed to nitpicking of minutiae) is Maggie's failure to shoot Merle when she had the opportunity. Can't see any reason she would not have pulled the trigger at that point.

Yeah, that's a good point I hadn't thought about. I could see Glen hesitating since Merle was part of the original group, but Maggie has no ties to him. I guess it could be she hesitates to kill the living (although she shanked no-name with little qualms).

[UncleRojelio]

Originally Posted by Just Ed

One thing I'm surprised hasn't been pointed out here (and I usually am opposed to nitpicking of minutiae) is Maggie's failure to shoot Merle when she had the opportunity. Can't see any reason she would not have pulled the trigger at that point.

I was screaming at the TV at this point. WTF?

[montag01]

Loving this show a lot, despite (and sometimes because of) its inconsistencies. Considering how many walkers are in the woods, I sort of thought the group might try to bait enough to follow them, then lead 40-50 of them to Woodbury and use them as a distraction. While the people on the wall are occupied with this sudden, huge number of walkers at their gates, Rick's group sneaks in from the other side. I guess it would be too dangerous trying to lure them, though.

That said, with all the gun fire that went down, and considering how many walkers are shown to be in the woods, there really should be a huge herd shambling toward the town--or even already at the gates--from every direction. Yet that doesn't appear to be the case.

The fight between Michonne and the Governor was terrific--with some great acting by David Morrissey, who made me feel genuinely sorry for his character despite how his most loathsome qualities were highlighted in the previous episode.

The ongoing disappointment to me is Merle. As this season started, the storyline seemed to hint that this character had a little more going on than just being a nasty racist asshole. He serves his purpose by being uncomplicated, but I'd rather see the writers going for the touchdown rather than punting, especially when you have an actor as good as Michael Rooker in the part.

[DigitalC]

Originally Posted by DianaG

Wait, are we talking about Tiny? Because he was definitely bitten.

Yes Tiny, and no he wasn't bitten. They specifically showed a zombie shackled hand and foot breaking of his hand and stabbing him with his wrist bone in the shoulder. Then everyone pretty much acted like he was toast just as he had been bitten.

[gytalf2000]

Originally Posted by UncleRojelio

I was screaming at the TV at this point. WTF?

I was a bit perplexed, as well. He's obviously a dangerous character, why not shoot him?

I do find Merle fascinating, though, and I look forward to watching him interact with Darryl when the show comes back in February.

[Chefguy]

Okay, so how did the Governor know that Darryl was Merle's brother? They just captured him, and you know he wouldn't have said shit, so short of having a photo of him, the guv couldn't have known who he was.

[Human Action]

Not a bad episode. TWD is always at it's best when things are happening, and at it's worst when characters are talking.

One thing I noticed: in the season premiere, while Rick's group was clearing out the prison grounds, the gunshots were CGI'd in, with no recoil or shell casings being ejected. It looked horrible and cheap. In this episode, they must have stepped up the budget for blanks, because we got casings and recoil.

I had thought that they'd do more with the idea that Woodbury folks are soft and complacent, and Rick's gang has been hardened by the road. Glenn's improvised weapons served that idea, but not much else did.

The treatment of women and minorities continues to be embarassing. Once we met Tyreese, I too thought "So long, Oscar." Andrea is defined by being whiny, foolishly arrogant, and by the men she couples with. Maggie and Michonne can't kill evil people who've harmed them when presented with the opportunity.

That's another question I had, are we meant to take Andrea as being competent? She insists that warning residents is beneath her and that she should be in the thick of the fighting (and blows off her assigned duties to do so)...is she meant to be a fool, or to be underestamated by others?

Originally Posted by Reverse

Also, people, it's not rocket science: zombie bites are venomous. It's one of those things that is a cornerstone of most zombie fiction. Just go with it.

This makes the characters' refusal to wear sleeves infuriating, some sort of skin protection (duct tape, leather jacket, anything!) would have saved the lives of T-Dog, Jim, Big Tiny, the girl from the new group, and also Hershel's leg. And I wonder when we'll get the trope of a zombie bite being concealed from the group...

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Didn't it look like Penny was responding to the music, and to her dad's voice? I suppose it could have been bad acting, but she seemed to calm down a bit when he spoke to her. I felt for him.

I think she was responding, and it's another bit of evidence that some zombies are capable of reasoning and memory. But, it was somewhat ambiguous.

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

Have Rick's people always had those weapons? What happened to being low on ammunition, from an episode or two back?

Originally Posted by AngelSoft

I'm assuming they gained access to the weapons stored in the prison. I mean, you're not gonna find smoke bombs many other places at that point.

They already had the M4 and the AK in the season premiere; when they cleared out the prison yard, Carol manned the AK and Hershel the M4. The flashbangs and smoke grenades were taken from the armored SWAT-looking zombies, after they dispatched them and secured part of the prison itself, there's a scene of their new gear (pistols, grenades, batons) spread out on a table, and it's discussed for a bit. As to being low on ammunition, "low" is such a subjective term it's difficult to know what they mean. For my guns, "low" would be less than 1,000 rounds. For Rick, "low" might be under 500, or 100, there's no way to know.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Chefguy

Okay, so how did the Governor know that Darryl was Merle's brother? They just captured him, and you know he wouldn't have said shit, so short of having a photo of him, the guv couldn't have known who he was.

Merle said his brother was part of the group, and I suspect Daryl would have asked to see Merle when he was first captured.