Two closest buddies at work--drop dead!

The BBQ Pit
1

Every fucking time I see you outside of work, together at least, for anything social, I end up pissed at you, and always over the same fucking thing–money.

For years, we three would go out for a meal, and I would invariably order a salad and a glass of wine, while you two would order the freaking menu and a few barrels of wine, and when the check comes, one of you (the less socially clueless) would make some gesture towards approximating who had what, which the other one would hand-wave away with a derisive “What, are we a pack of old ladies? We always just split it equally. Here’s my 12 cents!” It would then be a struggle to persuade him that his share of the meal–even splitting it equally–after tax, tip, bbbyyy comes to slightly more than 12 cents.

So I would take a ten-dollar hit, usually twenty or thirty dollar hit, every time we three dined out (they always insisted on a swanky french restaurant, too, in their neighborhood–they live five blocks apart, I live a forty minute subway away). Why do I tolerate this? Well, the more socially clueless one is in a wheelchair, and I feel the need to accomodate him with a restaurant that’s accessible, plus he’d have to take a cab if we went someplace out of his neighborhood (and believe me he’d bitch about the expense, notwithstanding I’ve probably paid enough in subways to his place that I could have bought a cab by now). And he actually hired me (twenty years ago) or at least was on the committee that hired me, and also sat on the committee that granted me tenure fifteen years ago, so I rationalize his cluelessness by saying that I might not have my job if not for him.

The other one is, technically, my boss these days (our working relationship is more like equal partners–when we disagree on work-related stuff, I get my way much of the time) but work would be unpleasant for me if we didn’t get along, so I’m reluctant to make a big deal out of fairly petty stuff–ten bucks here, thirty bucks there–in the larger context.

Last night took the cake. I announced I’m eating a strict macro-biotic diet (which is only a slight exaggeration) so I couldn’t dine with them, but we agreed to see a movie before they went out to dinner. It was the opening night or so of the new Woody Allen movie, and we suspected there would be a line, and I would be free before the movie, and in the neighborhood, so I agreed to purchase the three tickets an hour before they would show up (one of them wheeling the other to the theater), and–you guessed it. They accepted the tickets I handed them (and there WAS a line, that stood on the sidewalk in the rain, which they were spared) but nary a gesture towards anyone’s wallet. Afterwards I walked them to their restaurant, and I sat with them until their food arrived. Nothing. Nada.

Guys, I just can’t do this anymore–it burns me up too much to know I’m either going to have to lose money, even small sums, whenever I see you socially, or else get into a position where you make it seem that I’m a bean-counting, petty asshole.

2

Would it really have been that hard to say, as handing over the ticket, “They’re $10 each” or whatever? I don’t think that’s bean counting or being petty. Tho you’ve been covering them so long, they may think you like doing it.

Still, pretty cheesy of them not to even pretend to want to settle their debts.

3

Next couple of times you go out, “forget” to bring your wallet. See what happens.

4

Well, at that moment, we were standing outdoors in the rain, trying to get a wheelchair through a crowd–not really a good moment to have them reaching for wallets.

I agree-- I could make an issue out of this if I really wanted to. I just think it’s far more polite for them to cough up with zero prompting on my part. At this point, I’d almost settle for them just saying “Thanks for the movie tickets, man.” From the check-in-the-restaurant moments, I dread the whole uncomfortable ensuing discussion–“I didn’t pay you for that? Are you sure? I thought I did. I thought I slipped you a ten. I slipped you nothing? Really? Okay, if you say so…” Fuck it. If you can’t acknowledge it on your own, I don’t want to do shit with you at this point, is basically how I feel.

5

Talk to the waitress on the side if your chicken, and tell her to bring separate bills. Watch their faces when she hands out bills to each of them. Priceless.

You’re making excuses even now. I’m sure you will have an opportunity to collect from them in the future, when it doesn’t happen to be raining and you bought stuff again.

6

That blows. Next time you go out, maybe you could say something like, “Hmmm…I picked up the movie tickets last week. Do you just want to pick up the first round? Then we’ll call it even.” Something like that.

7

Sure I am.

The thing is, rationally, it makes no sense for me to make an issue out of this.

It costs me, max, a hundred bucks per year, maybe, probably less when you account for my pathetic attempts to get some of it back (let one of them buy me a soda more often than I pick one up for one of them, etc.), and the guy who’s nominally my boss could be a real ball-buster if he ever got to disliking me (refusing to sign expense reports without receipts, challenging my travel expenses, even signing on for my annual raise or other compensation.) I could file a grievance if he got grossly out of line with this stuff, but that’s not the point, which is: economically, the risks of making them dislike me (which neither of them do–they would say I’m a great fellow, fantastic colleague, etc.) are nowhere close to what I’m being nickel-and-dimed out of here.

It’s just that I don’t have to go out socially with them as much as I’ve been doing over the years, and now it’s reached the point where it would be less vexing just to say, “No, sorry, fellows, can’t make it that nght. or that night. Or that night, either. Have yourselves a good time. Maybe next time. No, that night doesn’t work for me either.”

8

Did I miss something here? Why on earth don’t you simply announce, “Dutch treat!”, and then everybody pays his own way?

ETA: and you tell the waitress, upfront, “Separate checks, please.” Good friends–true friends–don’t have any problem with going Dutch treat.

9

As you’ve said in later posts, it may not be a lot of money over the long run, but the second guy, who insists on splitting the check equally and even then apparently can’t divide by three, is obviously manipulating the situation to his advantage. As Abby (or was it Ann?) used to say, no one can take advantage of you without your permission.

10

It seems to me that you’re afraid of speaking up because one is your boss and the other is in a wheelchair.

In an employer-employee situation, the employer ALWAYS foots the bill or goes dutch treat. Under no circumstances should you be paying for your boss…unless you want to, like a birthday dinner or something.

And I strongly suspect your wheelchair-bound friend has mastered the trick of pulling his wallet out from his pocket, even in the rain.

There’s no need to be confrontational about it. Next time you go out to dinner, tell the server “separate checks, please.” It’s quite possible your friends think you enjoy treating them, so next time, speak up. I never understood the practice of splitting a bill evenly, regardless of who ate what. There was a Friends episode about it. Either someone willingly pays for everyone or everyone pays their own way.

I know you say it’s not the dollar amount, but what’s really bugging you is the expectation that 1)You’ll cough up the dough and 2)They don’t seem to appreciate it. The money is irrelevant. For the sake of your relationship with these two, speak up.

11

Me: “Dutch treat!”

Buddy #1: “Oh, please [eye-rolling]! Are we a bunch of old ladies?”

Buddy #2: “What’s the problem–have we been taking advantage of you?”

Me: “Well, I didn’t want to bring it up, but the last few times we’ve gone out–”

B#2: “You’ve been keeping records?”

Me: “Not at first, no, but this has gotten so extreme, it’s hard NOT to notice–”

B#2: “Okay how much have we robbed you of? And going back how far, exactly?”

Me: “Let’s just forget about what’s happened in the past, okay, and just each pay for ourselves from now on.”

B#1: “What, are we a bunch of old ladies? [falsetto] Did you order the side order of toast, dearie?”

B#2: “[falsetto] and who ordered the extra pot of tea?”

Me: “If I was just talking about toast and tea, guys, yes, I would be petty–but you guys have been ordering for years like the train is leaving for Dachau in forty minutes, and you both drink more during a meal than I put away in three months and it adds up, trust me. I’d just rather pay my own bills, okay?”

B#1: “What, are we a bunch of old ladies?”

I think it’s easier all around to vent here, thanks, than it is to discuss this rationally, because if they responded to rational cues, this would have been resolved ages ago, and easily. It’s not my job to teach them social behavior, nor is it cost-effective to make an issue out of this with them–and yes that does make me reconsider them as friends. This morning I think of them as “jerks from work.”

12

If money’s tight, simply ask for separate bills. And stop offering to pre-buy tickets if you’re not willing to ask for the money.

I’d also advise you to quit keeping mental ledgers on how much each of you is spending. That’s rather petty. I mean, if you’re all in school and living on a shoestring budget, then it’s understandable. But you reached a certain stage in life (I hope) where $10-20 here and there shouldn’t be a big deal. Just chalk it up to the cost of entertainment and relax. One day you may need their help, either professionally or personally, and you can cash in those virtual chips. That’s the way friendships work.

13

Let me reiterate - don’t take money when you go out with them. Force them to pay for you. What are they going to do? Demand you pay them back later? If they do, *then * start talking about who owes who what - after *they * bring the subject up.

Fight fire with fire.

14

Good. Pursue that line of thought. :wink:

IMHO the hypothetical conversation you just posted adds up to “Jerks Bordering On Assholes”, and if I had quote-unquote “friends” like that who rode roughshod over my wishes and desires like that, and who made hooting fun of my expressed preferences like that, I’d be dropping them from my A-List pretty damn quick. “Gee, sorry, I’m busy, can’t join you” would start cropping up in my response to their invitations.

I’m seeing moochers here, dude. World-class moochers, who have gleefully learned that they have a ready mark in you, easily intimidated into funding their steaks and movie tickets. That whole hypothetical conversation was an exercise in passive-aggressive behavior. Are these people really your friends?

15

I have to disagree with this. In my experience, asshole moochers, being unperceptive people, never perceive that there’s an implied debt in all those times when you paid for more than your share at the restaurant and all the movie tickets they never reimbursed you for, and so when you go to call in what you perceive as a marker, you get a blank look. “Gee, sorry, wish I could help you…”

16

One of my best friends for years has been something like this. He always wants to leave the absolute minimum for the tip regardless of the quality of service. I worked it out with him ultimately but it took years. Still he’s inattentive to basic social cues and the other day I unreasonably blew up at him, immediately apologized when I calmed down, then a couple of days later he wanted to get back into it and go the rounds. So I just cut off all communication with him. He thinks I need to come to my senses, and is just blissfully ignorant of how obnoxious his day to day behavior is. So every time I think about calling him to settle stuff I just think about how it’ll probably be me eating my hat and apologizing again while getting nothing in return. So at this point I simply don’t want to talk to him, and each day that goes by my desire not to talk to him has not abated one iota. So yeah, if people are this casually clueless or contemptuous of your feelings, just remove yourself from their company.

17

Your “friends” sound like assholes. I understand why you feel you can’t do anything but avoid them, and vent here – may I suggest one option? Next time you go out with them, tell the server “I need mine on a separate check, please” and look at them and say “I have to run an errand/hit the grocer/call my mom/whatever, so I will be leaving early. I’d never ask you guys to pay my way.” Do that a few times and see if the next time you don’t if they’ve gotten the hint. I also suggest the “oh, shit, I must have left my wallet on the subway!” excuse, it’s easy enough to get them to understand that you know what’s going on and aren’t willing to continue. Me? I’d do what you’re doing and just not go out with them anymore.

18

My opinion about this sort of behavior is that subtley people like this know they are taking advantage. They might not talk to themselves about it in their internal monologue, but I think they know. To confront them about it exposes the lie and makes them angry.

19

From the OP, it sounds like the topic of fairness does come up, and the two of them have a routine down to keep the status quo. I find that life is too short to deal with such folks. If you live in a city, there are plenty of other people to be friends with.

It’s not about the money, really, but balance in the relationship. If it feels like there is a give and take, people don’t keep tabs on things–or at least I never do. Whenever I find myself feeling the urge to keep tabs, that’s when I start thinking about the relationship as a whole, and whether I’m always getting the short end of the stick. If I am, then it’s not a friend I’m hanging out with–it’s a moocher. There are plenty of moochers in the world. Sometimes they mooch money. Sometimes they’re emotional vampires and mooch support. The worst ones are both. None of them are worth the energy.

My friends are as giving and generous with me as I am with them, and not because anybody discusses it or thinks about it. We simply care about each other and get pleasure from doing nice things for each other. Everyone comes up short sometimes, be it financially or emotionally. Friendship is about taking turns to even out those bumps for everybody. Dismissing that as an “old lady” thing is really sad and pathetic when you get down to it. As if age or gender should define friendship and fairness?

I’d ditch 'em in a New York minute.

20

Is this a hypothetical or truly a conversation you’ve had with them? If it’s the latter, then that would be the last time I’d go out with them. Honestly, who in their right mind thinks someone who orders a salad should chip in for someone ordering steak and lobster? Unless there’s considerable cuddling afterward, then I’d have to say you’re getting screwed in the Not Good Way.