2 gay guys, 2 kids, and 1 spiteful ex-wife.

In My Humble Opinion
1

I need some advice and comments. First, I am a gay guy and so is my boyfriend.

One year ago, I met my partner. It was a whirlwind relationship, but we both felt very strongly that we should be together. I moved in with Jason in his 3 bedroom apartment. Jason has two kids, a boy 16 and a girl 13. He has been separated for 3 years and divorced for 7 months. They have shared custody, however the children live with their mother full time, with the exception of every other fri, sat and sun. The kids are very accepting of their father and I. There is no question about it, they adore me.

Jason’s ex-wife is a money hungry wench. Jason already pays an UNGODLY amount of spousal support, plus child support. His ex-wife tries everything she can to disrupt our lives. On the weekend that the kids are with us, she will call them on their cell phones at least 10 times a day to find out what they are doing, or to see if they are getting their homework done, or to remind them that they are expected to be in church on Sunday and their father had better bring them or she’d come get them……etc.

In August, Jason and I bought a house. Actually, he bought it completely in his name. We have an agreement in which I pay a certain amount each month. Jason told me that he could not have afforded the house if it weren’t for me helping him.

A month ago, my partner got a notice to appear in court. His ex-wife was taking him to court because he hadn’t paid his “back spousal support”. In reality, he had 180 days to pay it, and only 170 days had passed. There were a few other issues that had to be discussed and everything was resolved. Near the end court, the ex-wife’s lawyer tells the judge that his client wanted the judge to review visitation. He said that his client didn’t feel comfortable leaving “her” children in a house with two gay men, who slept in the same bed. (I’m not sure what the bed has to do with anything. I think most people of her ilk assume that gay men have sex non-stop, even in front of children. Well, we do have lots of sex, and it’s very rarely in our bed and never under any circumstances in front of children or anyone else!). My partner objected to this being brought up without his prior knowledge, and they now have to appear in court in a few weeks. Basically, she wants no overnight visits at all. We assume that she has been told that she can get more money in child support if she has a court order saying that the kids sleep at her house every single night.

My partner has told me on several occasions that if he lost his children, he’d be hurt, but he would not “get rid” of me. His reasoning is that the kids will be free to make their own decisions very soon anyway.

My partner has hired a good lawyer but we’re not completely sure what to expect in court. Does anyone have any insight on this?

Other facts to consider:

The ex-wife has no problem with her husband being gay. She’s known her husband was gay for the last 10 years of their marriage. She even encouraged him to find a boyfriend on a few occasions.

We think that the woman may be addicted to court. She likes hearing “you poor woman, how dare your husband do this to you”

Both kids have said that they’ll run away to live with us if they are “taken away”.

She refuses to speak to Jason at all. She sends an occasional e-mail, but only when she wants something. Jason wants to be a major part of their lives, but he can’t without his ex-wifes support. His daughter had minor surgery a few months ago and Jason didn’t find out about it until the day before. Things like that are kept from him.

On the weekends that the kids are with us, she plans things for them to do. I.e. go to church, go to neighborhood events, plan sleepovers. She even coerced the 13 year old girl to be on two basketball teams. A typical weekend at our house is driving the kids to their various functions. That’s not bad, but they seem to only have full weekends when they are with us.

The lawyer Jason had for his divorce is the same judge we’ll have in a few weeks. He has not been a pleasant judge to deal with from the beginning. He has made it known that he does not “approve” of the homosexual lifestyle….but went on to say that he didn’t see a reason that his kids shouldn’t be with him. The only thing that has changed is that I’m in the picture. We took our lawyers advice and have agreed for me to sleep in the guest bedroom on the weekends that the kids are with us. But as said earlier, I am not sure what the significance of where we sleep is.

2

My non-lawerly, impractical advice is to move to a state where discrimination against gays, in at least some ways, is against the law, or transform VA in to a bastion of tolerance.

If you manage that, tackle world peace next.
I hope I never get divorced. Good luck to you and your family.

3

Nothing like parents using their children as weapons.
Tell them not to run away, the ex will likely claim its your bad influence that caused that! Good luck.

4

Actually, if you didn’t have larger fish to fry, I would point out that Jason could always file his own petition to include a provision that the kids’ mom call only once each day while the children are in Jason’s care. We (I work at a Family Court in NY State) get such petitions all the time, and they are usually granted or settled without too much trouble.

I can’t speak for Virginia, but in NY State, this would almost certainly not lead to an increase in child support. (We frequently have cases where the non-custodial parent requests a lower support payment based on the fact that the child spends equal or almost equal time with him or her. Unless the other party agrees, it pretty much doesn’t happen.) Keep in mind, however that I am not a lawyer.

Maybe you could find someone who could testify from firsthand knowledge that this was the case. Not likely, I know, but it could be useful if anyone else ever heard her say this.

This is another thing which Jason could bring up if he chose to file his own petition for modification of visitation.

This is confusing. Do you mean the judge is the same judge, or did the judge actually represent Jason at some point? I’m assuming you mean the former, because if the latter were true, it would be a major conflict of interest.

It is not uncommon for parties to agree not to have anyone they are not married to sleeping in their bedrooms with them while the children are over. Obviously, this presents a lot more of an obstacle for you than it would for people who were able to be legally married.

I don’t know how things work where you are, but in NY, a law guardian would be appointed to represent the children’s interests. In your case, this could be good news or bad news, since the law guardian’s opinion generally carries a lot of weight. (I know whereof I speak. My brother got totally ((*&^%^%%ed by a prejudiced law guardian awhile back.)

I assume that your attorney will ask the judge to do an “in camera” interview with the children at some point, so the judge can hear what they have to say.

Good luck.

5

I don’t know about VA, but here in OH what the kids want is given a lot of consideration. If the judge is homophobic, there is really nothing you can do about that. You’re providing a loving, stable home and (I presume) giving suffiicent attention and love to the kids. That’s all you can really do. The fact that this judge granted custody to your BF in the first place bodes well for you, IMO.
The kids need stability and they need to witness how a successful, loving relationship works. I hope the judge recognizes that.

There’s nothing you can do about the ex except control your reaction to her. She’s going to be in your life for the next five years. My advice for dealing with anyone who is dramatic and irrational, be they five or forty-five, is to remain calm and avoid escalating the drama if you can. It’s really hard when you have someone hell bent on pushing your buttons, but try hard not to give her the reaction she is seeking.

Good luck to all of you.

**

BTW, I know that you didn’t ask for advice on this and I’m overstepping my bounds a bit, but if I were your friend, I’d caution you about sharing expenses while allowing only his name to be on the mortgage. Half of all relationships end in divorce; I would suspect that there is no difference with gay couples. Keep that in mind and protect yourself financially.

6

IANAL etc. There is a case pending in Maryland right now that originated in Virginia that is pretty directly on point. A gay male couple were ordered by a Virginia judge to live separately as a condition of the father’s retaining custody. The men moved into separate apartments in Maryland and are now seeking through Maryland’s courts to reverse the order of the Virginia court. The VA court based its decision on Virginia’s sodomy law, which like other state sodomy laws was struck down by the US Supreme Court in Lawrence. Your wife’s lawyer is undoubtedly aware of this case so be sure your lawyer is too.

There was a similar case in Idaho but it is much less on point. Still, your lawyer should be aware of it since it is the first state supreme court to rule on the issue of sexual orientation and child custody since Lawrence.

And even though you didn’t ask for anyone’s opinion on the subject, if you’re contributing toward the purchase of a house that your partner could not afford without your help, and you have nothing in writing that you’re entitled to a portion of the house, then you’re a sucker. No court in Virginia will recognize a claim from you on any part of the house without something in writing, and even then an asshole judge may decide to ignore it. Should he die, even if he leaves a will bequeathing the house to you, you’re putting yourself at risk of losing it. Get your name on the title and make him write out a will with his lawyer leaving you the house.

7

Not all women are physcotic.

Sorry, I have no cite to back that statement up.

Any person, regardless of sex or gender-preference, who is a nutjob that uses their own child as a weapon or tool against a former spouse/lover should …I don’t know know what would be proper and just, but I feel for you and those kids.

8

Ms. Ex-wife has no life and is unhappy. It’s a text-book case. She needs to get back to dating and such. The three days the kids spend with you are perfect for a single mother who wants to date, and it seems that she could leave the kids even on other days. It will be much better for her children also to see their mother happy and to stop the disruption of their healthy relationship with their father. Eventually they will start to dislike their mother.

I think there are psychological aspects at play here that you could even use in the case, though of course I would leave it to the lawyer to decide if that is so and how. Mind you, the prime motive should be at any point the best interest of his children, and they are also served by the best interest of their mother. So you could express concern for this and suggest ways of helping her to become happy again. Getting the children all for herself or getting more money isn’t going to make this happen, and if you can get that to dawn either on her, or on the judge … .

Anyway, I’m rambling on a bit here …

9

Quote:
Originally Posted by rostfrei
The lawyer Jason had for his divorce is the same judge we’ll have in a few weeks.
This is confusing. Do you mean the judge is the same judge, or did the judge actually represent Jason at some point? I’m assuming you mean the former, because if the latter were true, it would be a major conflict of interest.

Sorry, mistake on my part. It should have read, 'the judge that Jason had for his divorce is the same judge we’ll have in a few weeks".

10

Maybe this will help:

http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/states/record?record=46

If nothing else, you might want to contact them regarding your case. Sometimes it helps to have special interests on your side.

Good luck and let us know how it all turns out.

11

I have done some family law practice and been involved in some ugly divorce and custody cases. However, I am not YOUR lawyer, so this advice is general, and your partner should consult his own lawyer.

That said:

Your partner should sit his kids down and explain to them the importance of abiding by the court’s ruling, whatever it is. Running away to live with you would be a disaster of monumental proportions. It’s called “custodial interference,” and it could cause your partner to have his custody/visitation rights severely curtailed.

If the kids make good on their threats and run away to your house against a custody order, your partner should pack them in the car and take them back to their mother’s house, unless he has reason to suspect abuse or neglect.

While he sounds like he’s far from the ideal judge, as a lawyer, I would be encouraged by this attitude. Also, if the judge has known your partner is gay all along, he’s less likely to make a change now based on your partner being in a gay relationship.

This is an excellent attitude to adopt.

I have seen a lot of cases in which the ex-spouses spent every last dime on bitter custody fights. (“Addicted to court”–I’ve seen it a lot in family law cases.) I worked one case in which a couple had been going to court every month for 8 years. I worked another in which both parents were guilty of custodial interference at various times.

In all these situations, the kids were a mess. All of them had multiple therapists and psychiatrists and were having serious behavioral issues.

I am not advising your partner to lay down and take whatever comes down the pike…just to remember that the primary goal is to make the very best of a bad situation for the kids, not to “win” against the ex-wife. It sounds like he’s a good parent and inclined to think this way. but after seeing what I’ve seen, I feel that I have to say it.

Obviously, your partner needs to wait and see what the judge does. I’m optimistic, based on how you’ve described the judge.

Please keep us posted. :slight_smile:

12

First off, you have my sympathy. The situation sounds hugely frustrating.

Now, an unhelpful comment…

Whatever she may have said about boyfriends etc., it doesn’t sound to me as if she really has no problem with her husband being gay, or she wouldn’t be bringing up the “same bed” thing. Not that that matters much if your judge doesn’t approve of the homosexual lifestyle, as he’ll be unlikely to notice her hypocrisy. :rolleyes:

13

My guess as to why it’s suddenly become an issue?

She’s realized that if the kids live with her, she’ll get child support. More money for her! And a fun way to stick it to her ex-husband to boot!

If she really cared about the “gay sex in the same house as my kids” issue, she would’ve brought it up from the very beginning.

I’ve seen ex-spouses bring moralistic arguments like this (about unmarried hetero couples too), and they’re almost always just using the issue as just another thing to keep the fighting alive and to stick it to the other ex-spouse.

14

Good point. Jason has stressed to the kids that running away is not the right thing to do. We just thought it should be mentioned to the judge that this is what the kids have said.

Another thing we found out today… our lawyer told us that she got a list of “issues” that were to be brought up in court. The main thing will be that the ex-wife wants to cease all overnight visits as long as I am there. She also wants it so that the children are not left alone with me under any circumstances, and specifically, I cannot give the children rides anywhere. This puzzles me because most of the time, me giving the kids a ride is to her benefit. I think she is upset that Jason has help and she doesn’t.

15

Be careful how it gets mentioned. Specifically, it would be best for it to actually come out of the kids’ mouths, or through a guardian ad litem or therapist’s report of the kids’ statements, rather than through his lawyer. What sounds troubling from those sources can sound like a manipulative invention when it comes out of the mouth of a parent’s lawyer. Frankly, parents throwing around those kinds of statements–“the kids say they hate their mom so much they’ll run away”–are really common. Family law judges tend to give that stuff little weight if it comes from a “parental source,” because they figure it’s a lie or an exaggeration, and that you’re just being manipulative and/or histrionic. It gets much more weight if they actually hear it from the kid or an advocate for the kid (like a GAL or a therapist).

Just from what you’ve said, I’d think it would be highly to your partner’s benefit if the kids could talk to the judge and let him know their wishes. He could satisfy himself that you have a good relationship with the kids, that they prefer your partner to their mom, that you’re not molesting them ( :rolleyes: ), etc.

Frankly, if the judge is willing to suspend his anti-homosexual bias, her whining about you giving the kids rides might likely blow up in her face. It shows that your home is functioning like an integrated family (because you’re helping with the kids). Most judges wouldn’t look kindly upon her trying to disrupt an arrangement that is beneficial to the kids.

I get the impression that you and your partner are in a committed relationship and intend to stay that way for the foreseeable future. If that’s true, pointing out the stability and commitment of the arrangement would be in your favor. That’s an issue in most situations like this, whether the partners are hetero or homo.

Best wishes, Q.N.