Wright ran a 4.61 at the combine. For a “speed receiver” that is decidedly not speedy.
The Redskins are reportedly willing to do whatever it takes to get the Rams’ pick.
True, the Browns have more firepower in terms of those 2 first-rounders this year, but history has shown, and granted that was the previous regime, but history has shown those who get into a bidding war with Dan Snyder get blown out of the water. Will they end up overpaying? I have little doubt they will. But if RG3 ends up being the player everyone seems to think he is, I’d say no price is too high, especially for a team as desperate for a franchise QB as the Skins are. Would it be a mistake even if he’s a great player? I couldn’t say, but surely for a team as bad as the Skins are, you have to start somewhere.
Poe is a nose tackle, not a pass rusher like those two. He’s was bound to get double and triple teams playing against those directional schools. Still, he’s known to take plays off and is too fat despite his strength and athleticism.
I can’t remember who tweeted it or if it was just speculation (in other words, disregard what I type next) but someone said the 'Skins would give up this year’s 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks plus next year’s 1st round pick.
What is your criteria for the difference? Here is pro football reference’s list of QB seasons since the merger, with over 400 yds rushing in a season, sorted by rushing yardage. There are only 49 QB seasons since the merger with over 400 yds rushing. Rodgers ran for 356 yds his Super Bowl year, so not in the previous cite, but still good for only the 61st best rushing season by a QB since the merger. Young has 5 of the top 50 seasons ever. Elway isn’t in the list, oddly. The list is dominated by Randall Cunningham, Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper, and Steve McNair. Oh, and Donovan McNabb. Vick’s shortcomings have been noted elsewhere, but he did have the 6th highest passer rating season, among those QBs with more than 400 yds rushing in the season, with a 100.2. I guess we can blame Kevin Dyson for not being enough of a man to stretch that last yard, right after we blame Gary Anderson for screwing Randall Cunningham out of going to Super Bowl XXXIII. I don’t think Culpepper had a chance against the 2000-2001 Ravens, but then again, I don’t know that any team’s offense ever, would have done well against that defense. Maybe the mid-90s Cowboys and Niners teams?
Oh, and if you sort the list by QB rating, Culpepper comes out on top, during his ridiculous 2004 campaign, so he could do a lot more than run. Weird that they never got further to the Lombardi Trophy than that playoff game vs the Giants.
Go look through the list. Other than VY and Tebow, O.K., Kordell Stewart too, I’m not seeing a lot of running QBs who were also bad passers in the modern era. (There were more than a few surprises; I mean, no Elway, and yet there’s Mark Brunell in 1995—he was so-so throwing the ball that year., Rich Gannon in 2000 when they lost to the Ravens in the AFC Championship?) My point is this, a running quarterback will not unduly deprive their team of playoff success, especially now that QBs are treated with much more deference than in the past.
Finally, winning a Super Bowl is a process so dominated by luck, matchups, and small edges that all you can say about the winner is that they won. I don’t think you can make the logical conclusion that the winner was the best team in football that year, but it’s the only process we have to do so. Therefore, I think it’s fundamentally incorrect to make any pronouncements on whether something’s a good idea or might be successful, based on whether or not it’s ever been used to win a Super Bowl.
Yeeech, Hamlet. Never mind then. Strange, I thought he was a lot faster. DeSean Jackson, come on down!
He couldn’t even make the first team in his own conference, Conference USA, which isn’t exactly a hotbed of talent. If he’s that physically gifted, he should’ve been burning up the conference, even if he were double teamed. I have no doubt he’s a physical talent, but he’s also got big bust potential. I have no doubt a team will look at his combine and potential and take a chance on him, but I wouldn’t want my team to do it until maybe later in the second round. YMMV.
It’s telling that passing yds aren’t listed too. The ONLY QB on the list I’d hitch my wagon to is Young. (Though Culpepper in '04 and Grogan in '78 were very good)
Lord knows, it’d be too hard for you to click a few links.
Best passing seasons by running QBs. Note the names of scrubs like Tarkenton, Staubach, and Layne.
How could the Raiders sign him since they don’t have a first round pick (belongs to the Bengals for Carson Palmer, thankyouverymuch) as compensation?
SenorBeef, is there any merit to the argument that the Browns should pass on RGIII and instead fill their many holes on their roster elsewhere? Is it possible for McCoy to succeed if he actually had a less porous o-line and actual receivers to throw to?
I’m guessing he’ll say no. 
It’s hard right now to pass up a franchise QB considering how many consecutive Superbowls have been won by franchise QBs. I suppose you could try to slap a Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer on a solid team but really it seems much easier to slap a franchise QB on a team to cover up multiple big weaknesses.
Sorry I didn’t want to go hunting! :rolleyes: Layne and Captain America weren’t on the original list, BTW.
I kinda figured, especially based on his desire for the games to be at a bare minimum “interesting”, which isn’t equivalent to “winning”.
But really, how many of those “franchise QB’s” were on a truly BAD team and won it all? Manning, Rothlisberger, Brees, Rogers, Brady, Brady, Brady, Eli, Eli…ALL of those QB’s had a decent or great team around them in most regards. Only Dilfer (best defense ever) and Brad Johnson (again, awesome defense and strong running game) make that list since the 21st century started. What does that tell us?
I just don’t see the Browns drafting RGIII and suddenly becoming a winning team. They are bad in so many areas and have so many spots to fill. Maybe its a building block for the future, but…I don’t know.
You don’t pass up a guy like RGIII just because you have many other needs.
Right. The Panthers didn’t win many games this year, but they have a QB to build a team around, which gives them hope. The Browns, the Skins, the Dolphins, they all know this, and they want their hope. At the very least it’ll put butts in the seats, and sell a bunch of jerseys.
People shouldn’t be searching for reasons not to upgrade the QB position. You never hear “sure, that linebacker looks like crap and has major flaws and never seems to make a play, but if we just surround him with a hall of fame D-line, and maybe get him some new coaching, and build the defense around him, he might be okay”
But they grow emotionally attached to whoever the QB is, as the most identifiable player of the franchise. So they make excuses for him. You hear stuff like “even [insert hall of fame] QB wouldn’t look any better here!”, he might secretly be great but you’d never know because of the supporting cast, etc.
Now to some degree it’s true - obviously a better supporting cast would get better results - but you can evaluate a QB considering that. Some people say “wow, our QB got sacked 50 times last year, our O-line sucks, he has no chance”, but they don’t bother to notice that half his sacks came after the point where he had the ball for 3.5 seconds, where he held the ball too long or scrambled around with bad pocket presence and freed a guy up to hit him. They’ll say “our receivers lead the league in drops”, but fail to notice how many times the QB made the receiver try to bend backwards to catch a wobbler thrown behind them, resulting in them barely getting a finger on it, scoring as a drop.
And furthermore, there are basically two types of young QBs - there are the guys who have all the physical attributes you want but aren’t quite up to the mental game. You give those guys a few years to develop and see if they can put it all together. And there are guys who have a limited set of physical skills, but they’re smart, maybe they played in a complex offense in college, and they usually have accuracy and timing if not mobility and a rocket arm. Those are the guys who you expect to do pretty good immediately, but rarely be great.
McCoy was sold as the latter - a guy who had timing, touch, accuracy, the ability to read a defense, etc. He should come out of the gates doing fairly well. But fans want to treat him like the former type - a guy with all the physical skills that you need to give time to just to get it. Why in the world would you give time to a guy who’s supposed to be one of the low ceiling/NFL ready early succeeders who actually started out pretty bad? That’s the worst of both worlds.
McCoy has terrible pocket presence - he runs into his own sacks over and over. He holds the ball too long. He has poor technique, throws off his back foot necesarily, can’t spin the ball correctly and has a lot of wobblers, can’t anticipate routes - only throws after the receiver made a break, misses lots of guys streaking downfield while open, is way overly conservative - won’t throw to a guy unless he’s college-open, not nfl-open, which is why his interception per play is good but everything else per play is bad.
There’s nothing McCoy has shown that makes you think “just give him more time, pass up on a better prospect” - his ceiling isn’t that high, and his floor isn’t either. There’s nothing he does where you think “this guy is going to be special one day”. He’s in fact regressed.
So no, I don’t buy the idea that McCoy should be given more weapons. The weapons should be given something better than McCoy - the Browns receivers wouldn’t look so bad if they didn’t have to bend over backwards to catch wobbler one bounce passes, the O-line wouldn’t look so bad if they didn’t have to hold their blocks twice as long as they should, etc. The Browns O-line is actually one of the best in the league, but people are convinced that it’s terrible because of how often McCoy gets himself into trouble.
There is absolutely no reason, no reason whatsoever, in QB driven league, to pass up on an elite prospect like RG3 when gven the chance.
Right now I’d have to say the 2006 Colts were a truly BAD team that won it all with Peyton. And if I weren’t a Giants fan, I might draw a parallel between the 2006 Colts and the 2011 Giants. For some reason I’m thinking both were 32nd in the league in rushing; can that be right? Would be an odd coincidence.
Eli didn’t captain that offense the way Peyton does and I don’t think he’s up to his level yet, but the teams were very similar in that the had poor running games and secondaries but elite pass rushes. Essentially the passing game and pass rush won them that game, but I also don’t imagine this to be that rare a recipe if you were to dig.
Young, at least early in his career, was certainly a running quarterback.