Personally, I’d want Depeche Mode, T. Rex, Kraftwerk and NiN, in terms of them all being both music I like and very influential on other music I like.
I can see MC5 - while I don’t like their music, they were a big influence on music that I do like a lot.
But c’mon, the fucking Dave Matthews Band? Fuck that noise.
Same here
Musically, MC5 were more of an influence on what would become metal than on what would become punk. However, they were notable among rock groups of the time for being very outspoken with their radical leftist politics. In that way they can be seen as major influences on the underground/hardcore punk movement.
But then the HOF seems determined to erase that movement from the historical record, presumably because their labels weren’t buying ads in Rolling Stone. No Crass, Dead Kennedys or Black Flag? Apparently punk just ceased to exist for twenty years between the Sex Pistols and Green Day.
You could plausibly argue that, by definition, those bands don’t belong in the Hall of Fame, because they were never famous outside a relatively tiny subculture. But they certainly sold more records and directly influenced more bands than the MC5, so other than blatant bias in favor of bands on corporate major labels, I can’t see any reason why MC5 gets nominated and they don’t.
OTOH, John Sinclair was a legit political prisoner whose politics earned him a 20 year prison sentence for possession of a joint. I’m not sure how that “achievement” should be taken into account in an HoF discussion, but certainly he deserves some sort of honor for that sacrifice.
So, based on a quick google search, there appear to be no meaningful guidelines whatsoever on how Hall of Fame candidates should be evaluated, so that whether someone “belongs” can only be determined by comparing them to other candidates who are in, or out. Am I correct there?
For well on 40 years, I have never, ever understood the appeal or respect given to Pat Benatar.
First, her music is pedestrian and boring. I completely understand that is completely a matter of taste, but it is certainly more pop than rock, and I simply dislike it.
Second, here’s her 4 big hits:
Hit Me with your Best Shot - written by Eddie Schwartz.
Love is a Battlefield - Holly Knight and Mike Chapman.
We Belong - Eric Lowen and Dan Navarro.
Invincible - Holly Knight and Simon Climie.
Not writing her own music is a huge negative to me.
Third, it seems to me she’s mostly nominated because she was female. I have no problem celebrating females who succeed, and inclusion is important, but does anyone really think if she was a male that she’d be anywhere near the Hall of Fame? Or that if she wasn’t at the time of MTV exploding, she’d be even remembered?
After Aretha, Janis, Joni, the Motown groups, Patti, and the rest of the females in the Hall of Fame, they’re really scraping if they have to reach for Pat Benatar. Maybe Linda Rondstadt, Kim Carnes, and Lita Ford are on deck.
Well, yeah, case in point. Should not writing your own songs count against you? I tend to think not, but either perspective is equally valid, and they lead to radically different opinions on who deserves to be enshrined.
I would never choose to sit around listening to Pat Benatar of my own accord, but on those occasions in the 80s when I was stuck listening to commercial rock radio, those songs were a relative breath of fresh air in the miasma of Loverboy and Def Leppard.
For the Hall of Fame? Yes. Yes it should.
There are certainly performers who can overcome not writing their own music. Elvis. Madonna. Diana Ross. But outside of maybe her “release the prostitutes!” videos, is there anything that wow’s you about Benatar? I fully admit to not seeing her, ever, in concert, so maybe she’s an amazing performer, but I’m not seeing it at all.
There is a Youtube reviewer guy called Rap Rat Trapped (Look him up, he’s OK in my book) who reviewed Pat Benetar’s Hell Is For Children video and he ended up not being able to stifle his laughter. He wasn’t trying to be a jerk, but the way she was shouting the title made him think: what if she’s saying they deserve to be there? It was amusing to watch.
Hard to take any such organisation seriously when Kraftwerk were not inducted decades ago.
I already gave my personal opinion of Benatar, and whatever the HoF selection criteria are, they’re clearly not about what wows me personally. If the Lovin’ Spoonful and Traffic are in there, I don’t see how you could argue on the grounds of either record sales or artistic merit that Pat Benatar would be stinking up the place. (And btw, Linda Ronstadt is already in).
In 2017, Rodgers was inducted by himself as a producer, excuse me, “Award for Musical Excellence”. But his HOF bio mostly talks about his production work.
ETA: Hmm… George Martin, obviously in for being a producer, is in as a “Non-Performer”, so who knows what “Award for Musical Excellence” actually means.
Here is a complete list of inductees, by the way.
I see that Donna Summer and Janet Jackson are in, so I don’t see how Whitney Houston could be kept out. Clearly the “no pop acts” boat sailed a long time ago.
So if we’re putting 5 in, my votes are for Motorhead, Whitney, Kraftwerk, and I guess NiN and Biggie. I don’t really know anything about the last two, but I’ve at least heard of them even though their genres aren’t my thing. I doubt a young person who only listens to rap, for instance, would even have heard of Pat Benatar or Depeche Mode, so I infer that they were more major figures in their particular corner of the rock universe than those acts were in theirs.
Linda Ronstadt was inducted in 2014.
If I’m picking 5, the no-brainers would be MC5 and Kraftwerk for me. After that? I guess Biggie and Whitney [though I have reservations about non-rock acts being in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame, but leaving those issues aside, judging by influence, talent, musicianship, etc., they have to be in) and the last one? Motorhead. Or, wait, maybe Todd Rundren. Something like that.
I can see good arguments being made for much of the rest, though. My least favorite of that bunch would be Dave Matthews and The Doobies. I mean, I don’t hate their music necessarily (and I love Carter Beauford of DMB – I did see them once in a festival, and they were musically tight as hell) – I just don’t feel they are HoF material.
Ugh. Wow, they’re already in the dregs then.
Clearly, I need to stop posting about who is or isn’t in the Hall, or nominated, as I’m 0 for 2. :smack:
Well, it also begs an interesting question, to me (though maybe it should get its own thread): which performers, who are not yet eligible for the Hall, but will become eligible in the next few years, are likely to get in (or worthy to get in)?
A performer or group is eligible for election once 25 years has elapsed since the release of their first record (or, I imagine, equivalent recording), which I realized means that Britney Spears will be eligible in 2024 (her first album was released in early 1999). :eek:
It’s been the Hall Of The Pretty Good, Well Half-Decent Anyway for most of its existence.
The Dave Matthews Band, as a symbol of very popular mediocrity, would fit right in.
I like that! Thanks.
Considering I listened to Detroit radio growing up, I have never heard these guys before.
I have heard mention of them in HoF threads but figured they were some hip-hop band or something.