I’d also be very interested in hearing from our western Canadian Dopers on the question of Albert separatism. The question isn’t doing well in the opinion polls I’ve seen, there are more practical problems with it than you can shake a stick at (starting with the fact that the treaties with the First Nations are with the Crown, not the province!), and my impression is that their main talking point is that Canada doesn’t vote Conservative enough for them, so they want out.
I’m sorry, but the whole Alberta separatist movement strikes me as being incredibly ‘reality impaired’, along with the Alberta UCP…
…but I’m just an elite, leftist easterner now (despite growing up in Manitoba), so what do I know? @Spoons ? @Northern_Piper ? @Gorsnak ? Can you enlighten me?
The thread that @orcenio pointed to is a good starting point. But since you asked, I’ll give it a try, as your question goes (IMHO) outside that other thread.
Alberta has a problem with Quebec. That’s really what this all boils down to: Quebec complains, Ottawa gives it attention, Quebec complains some more, Ottawa gives it money, and Quebec is happy. Until it needs more money, so it complains again, and Ottawa gives it more money.
And whose money does Ottawa give? Alberta’s.
Oh, and Quebec can thumb its nose at the Charter willy-nilly, because they have some freakish attraction to the French language, and the Laurentian Elites (both Trudeaus, Brian Mulroney, Jean Chretien, Paul Martin, and others from other parties) in Ottawa wish more people in other parts of Canada spoke French, just like Quebec. Fulfilling Pierre Trudeau’s vision of a bilingual Canada from coast to coast. And Alberta has absolutely no wish to speak French.
That’s the heart of the problem. Note that it is not necessarily the way I feel, but it is the way many Albertans feel.
I’ve met a few. The guy in a red baseball cap with “Make Alberta Great Again” in white lettering on the front. The guy at the end of the bar who drinks four beers in a half-hour before muttering “Fucking Trudeau, we’d be better off if we left Canada.” The billboard that proclaimed “More Alberta, Less Ottawa” on Highway 2 from Fort Macleod to Calgary.
Many Albertans feel that they give more to Canada than they get back. Prince Edward Island has 4 senators to represent 154,000 people; Alberta has 6 senators to represent 4.5 million people. I can understand Alberta’s gripes at being unrepresented in the Upper House.
But I cannot understand why some Albertans want to leave Canada. Jeez, Canada offers a pretty sweet deal: a passport that is inoffensive to just about everybody else on the planet, a middle power that offers a voice of reason in international talks, a huge country that has a lot of resources to offer in trade—what’s not to like? Oh, something about oil. Yes, Ottawa wants to move away from that. Well, Alberta, maybe you should diversify away from oil and gas. Your tourism and agriculture is great, but you have the smarts to get into other industries—hell, you have skilled manufactories that work mainly in the oil and gas industry, but their skills can be turned to other things. You choose not to, because you’re putting all your money on oil and gas. That’s your problem, and no matter how much you bitch, moan, and complain about Quebec, it won’t change the fact that you are chasing a resource and a technology that the world is increasingly leaving behind.
I’m sure that if things were to come to a referendum (which is up in the air, as Alberta has two competing referendums at issue, one to stay and one to go), Albertans would overwhelmingly vote to stay in Canada. Should that happen, and Alberta unexpectedly votes for independence, I’m leaving. And I’m not the only one. Alberta’s population would drop by half, mostly those of us with advanced educations, and without any other ties to here. I’ve got friends elsewhere in Canada that can help me to get re-established. That’s something the separatists always fail to consider: the brain drain.
No, you pretty much nailed it. The Alberta Prosperity Project and its followers are idiots. Separatists can’t even agree among themselves. Half want an independent country, and half want to join the US.
The petition is not clear on this very important distinction. Jeffrey Rath, petition promoter, didn’t try to secure a $500 billion loan from the US to make Alberta independent. He wants Alberta to become a state. At best Alberta would end up a territory. Just like Puerto Rico.
Of course not. They’ll do like Quebecers did after 1980: keep trying to elect politicians that are sympathetic to their cause, and continuing to sell the idea that Alberta would be better off as an independent body or a US state.
Wow - there’s a lot to that thread. I can’t say I’m finding any of it surprising, and none of it has made me have any more inclination towards Alberta separatism, or even moving back to Alberta, than I had before! Thanks for pointing that out to me, though!
Watched Avi Lewis’s speech for winning NDP leadership and he mentioned his father and that he was in the hospital, but I didn’t know how serious it was.
Kinda puts a sharp edge hearing that “Not in my lifetime, but maybe in yours” part now (told as Avi’s Grandfather to his father, then his father to himself).
I wasn’t surprised at the two Toronto results, but I was a little surprised to see how strong the BQ support was in Terrebonne. Considering our biggest problem is Donald Trump and our decaying relationship with the US, I’m not sure what the BQ can do to make things any better.
Disappointed but not surprised at the poor showing of the NDP in all three ridings…
Remember that the Liberals only took Terrebonne by 1 vote before the judge ordered the election be set aside, so they certainly tightened up that lead.
I think the NDP have painted themselves into a corner with Lewis. They will appeal more to their base but will alienate people that lean in any way towards the centre.
Terrebonne was a two horse race so the Conservatives and the NDP had no chance here (it is was a VERY safe BQ seat) but the NDP did increase their vote share in both Scarborough Southwest and University—Rosedale (everyone decreased in absolute votes as by-elections never bring out all regular voters). Conservative support evaporated in University—Rosedale, while the NDP are doing better now versus the previous election.
I cannot say that this has anything to do with Lewis as he JUST became leader, however they are doing better… just not competitive. Or not competitive ENOUGH here.
A 10% voting share, fundraising, rebuilding/survival party has different needs than a 20% party who’ll focus towards widening support to attract enough voters to become a 30%-40% ruling party. Their goals are just different. Lewis is a great choice for a 10% party.
You may be right about Avi Lewis. I think his choice of ‘surveillance pricing’ as a first target issue is great, and the timing couldn’t be better, with Sobey’s and Loblaw’s again caught with their thumbs on the scale.
The Conservatives are choosing to attack Mark Carney for his economic education, which I can’t see going very well - their own economic educations were focused on right wing talking points, and any study of any other economic point of view was only included in order to refute it. The Liberals are doing an excellent job of staking out the centre/right, and that leaves lots of space for the NDP and the Greens to claim the true left.
I got my notice in the mail today, and promptly went online and completed the census. It wasn’t difficult, but be aware: you may have to go digging through your records to get figures for property taxes, mortgage payments, etc. I’m sure that there is a short-form census; but I always seem to get the long-form one. Anyway, be prepared.
Oh, and it must be completed by May 12th. Back in the day, I remember it being June 1, but I guess they changed it for some reason. At any rate, here’s a heads-up on the earlier deadline.
Did mine too, after a couple of website glitches where it initially wouldn’t recognize my login attempt. Long form here as well - maybe this is the norm now for the online version?
