Okay, last night my daughter’s boyfriend called at about 1:30 in the morning while my wife and I were sleeping to ask for her hand in marriage. we heard ther phone ring but ignored it and picked up the message in the morning. He said “Your daughter is the best thing I’ve seen since coming to this country. Please talk to (your daughter) about this.”
Keep in mind that this 25 year old who is courting my 21 year old daughter is foreign born and raised in a culture recently primitive.
At first when we were told about him my concern was about AIDS, very prevalent in his home country, but I was assured that immigration authorities required two tests to clear him.
A month ago we find out that he has a two year old daughter back in the old country whose mother died recently and he’s trying to get her over. My daughter thought it best not to tell us about his daughter, but that ommission really upset him.
Now this young man is not really completely oin his own feet yet. He is struggling with some bookkeeping course paid for by the government, but with English as a second language and my reservation with the quality of education in the thirld world country he is from, I am not surprised.
My daughter recently took on a new apartment mate putting him off on his proposal for “shacking up”. She loves him dearly, but I don’t think she’s ready for commitment.
So my wife and I are ignoring this telephone message until he breaks down and tells my daughter who will have to summon up the courage to talk to us. I was not impressed with the late night call, and though I might respect his culture in asking for my daughter’s hand I am not impressed by the manner in which he went about it.
As the father, there is a lot I like about the guy, but he hasn’t given me the confidence that he can hold up his half for their future happiness and prosperity, and I’d like to see a little more confidence, maturity, and proven capability before I “give my blessing”
She’s only 21; there’s no need to rush to do anything about this.
And there is really no need for you to actually do anything about this, your daughter sounds perfectly capable of deciding for herself if she wants him for a husband. And in this country & culture, she is the one who will make that decision. Somebody might have to clue this guy in to that fact.
I have to agree. What country is he from? That would tell a lot about what he expects out of a marriage as well. You also may want to find out just how that daughter’s mother died. And express your reservations to your daughter if she is level headed and easy to talk to. She needs to know what’s going on too.
The daughter might not be stopped by a lack of a parent’s blessing but this young man, due to his cultural upbringing, might be. I would talk to him a little bit and tell him that you are going to tell your daughter about the call. She might well be totally floored by it. From what you have told us, your daughter seems to have a sensible head on her shoulders at the very least. You have no need to worry.
“The best thing I’ve seen”, as in “…yet”, or “…until something else comes along” or “As good as I’m going to be able to do here”???
Not “I love her and want to spend my life with her”???
Some things (e.g. “talking” with you about it first) can definitely be explained as cultural differences, but this angle would give me pause.
And if he can’t discuss it with either you or our daughter directly. that doesn’t bode well either, IMO.
But I agree your daughter does seem very sensible, and so your worry level should be relatively low.
[hijack]
When my mother took my sister - 13 Y.O. and blond - to Egypt about 8 years ago, she was offered a bunch of camels for her in trade. My mom thought the man was kidding at first, but when their guide quickly escorted them away, she realized the offer was genuine!
[/hijack]
Someone needs to speak with this young man that calling people at 1:30 am is inappropriate except in emergencies, at least in this hemisphere (I’m presuming he’s from the other side of the planet, but I think you get my point in any case)
Second, someone also needs to tell him that marriage negotiations are typically handled by the potential bride and groom. You, of course, recognize that he is trying to do the right thing by going to you, the father. This might be an opening for a discussion of how customs differ between your two cultures and, since he has asked your opinion in the matter, you might express your concern about how such differences may negatively impact a future marriage (and relations with the in-laws when it comes to middle of the night phone calls). You might also mention that you have concerns about him “being on his own two feet” and that, purely as personal advice, you would suggest delaying marriage until such time as he is little more financially secure. I’m not an expert on, um, shall we say non-western cultures such as you describe, but from what I do know financial stability (or sufficient number of cows/camels/planted acreage) is considered a legitimate and appropriate factor to consider when discussing marriage.
It’s hard to say whether his phrasing such as “Your daughter is the best thing I’ve seen since coming to this country” may be due to language limitations, culturally appropriate ways of referring to prospective brides, or perhaps not too different from the way my husband has occassionally described me as “the best thing that ever happened to me.”
It sounds to me that you aren’t totally opposed to this union, but you do have some really valid concerns. And it sounds like your daughter is being cautious, too.
This is the joke of choice to play on Western tourists throughout North Africa. I’ve witnessed this both in Egypt and Tunisia, and everyone I know who has been there or to Morocco has encountered the same one. Once you’ve hurried away, turn around a couple of minutes later, and you’ll see the guys laughing. It comes as a package with shouting “Gazelle!” at young ladies (which isn’t terribly unpleasant when compared to some Western equivalents), and whereas it’s not a terribly subtle gag, it’s pretty harmless. It’s no worse that Italian guys driving past every single girl a dozen times in a row on Vespas shouting “Bellissima!”.
Look, you can’t buy girls in Egypt or Tunisia, especially not Western ones when the economies of these countries need tourism so badly, and most Egyptians and Tunisians have neither camels, dromadaries, goats or donkeys.
The man was not serious, both guide and shopkeeper were having one over on your mother. It is a source of immense entertainment for them. Back in North Africa I had a habit of hanging out in a friend’s shop on the weekend, rapping with the brothers. Language practice you know, that and laying the basis for future discounts (based on my assistance in assisting in seperating the gullible from their francs, DM and dollars.)
It was a source of immense sport to try to convince the Western women they really wanted to buy them with camels. these all guys who were college educated and had never been near a real camel in their fucking lives.
Now the hardcore version is when they figure you’re not buying, softcore is mere flattery to help in the sales process. They all know the imagery in the West and the souq shop owner (who is gen. quite middle class) plays to the image.
Thankyou to those whove helped me put this dilemna in a reasonable perspective. The young man is from Swaziland. the situation has been somewhat resolved by my daughter who assures me that her boyfriend is quite embarassed by his actions partially resulting from imbibing in booze a little too heavily but also from an evening where both visited his mother who has told her and him that she hopes she becomes her daughter in law. Apparently my daughter is the first girl to win his mother’s approval. My daughter has assured me not to worry and expressed extreme satisfaction with the moving into her apartment of another girl. Sigh. Collounsbury , your’re gunning for me right? I’m honoured that you’re opening my threads even though we don’t get along. Likewise.
Well, that’s what I had assumed (and said, when told the story), but she insisted it was so, and really, I had no facts/evidence with which to counter her argument.
However, now that I have it on authority of the great Collounsbury (and Zorro), perhaps I could make my case.
Although truly, it’s not worth bringing up again. (Beating a dead camel?)
Geee are you going by the Swaziland customs or are you just going along with it? If you really think there is some untapped potential in this man, why dont you set up a test of manhood?
Set up a list of criteria that he must fullfill before he can have your daughters hand in marriage. Test his confidence, maturity and responsibility and love for your daughter.
I’d set having stable employemnt as one of the top things he should have prior to marriage.
No more of this drunken late night calls either.
Then you can also make up a few sporting ones for your own amusement just to see if he has a sense of humor about him.
Coll’s camel joke comes to mind but that may be too cruel.
