40's in the Torah

Factual Questions
1

I’m taking this thread from the temporary board, because I wanted to respond to it, but got there too late.

DSeid wrote:

Any particular reason for the repitition of “4” and “40” in the Torah? 40 years in the desert, 40 days and nights of the flood, 4 questions, 4 cups, 4 sons, etc.

2

Then CKDexterHaven wrote:

The number 40 in the Old Testament seems to refer to a generational change – when something happens with a 40s reference, it’s like there’s a new world, a new generation.

Thus, 40 days and nights for the Flood, 400 years in Egypt, 40 days and nights that Moses is on Mt Sinai (representing a “new world,” a new generation), 40 years in the desert, etc.

This carries through the book of Judges, where new judges seem to appear in 40 year cycles (indicating a “new generation” arising.)

The New Testament uses the same reference, where Jesus goes into the desert for 40 days and 40 nights. So that’s why the 40.

Now, the question of fours tends to be mostly related to Passover rather than to Bible, and was probably just a mnemonic device.

Sevens, of course, tend to refer to creation.

However, if you are a numerologist, then you can get all excited over the use of 4’s and 3’s and 10’s and 7’s. Those tend to be “magic” numbers in the Bible, occurring fairly often.

3

Then ultrafilter wrote:

I had also heard that 40’s were used to symbolize purification of whatever was doing this thing for 40 time units. This seems to mesh with most of the examples Dex gave (although it doesn’t fit 100% with the judges).

4

Then I said something like:

The 40’s are much more focused on generational change, or attitudinal change. The “purification” aspects are often there, but as a secondary result. Thus, the purpose of 40 years in the desert is not to “purify” but (explicitly stated) so that the prior slave generation (with its slave mentality) dies out and a new generation (born in freedom) arises.

5

Then CKDexterHaven responded:

I think it’s the other way round, ultra. 40 days and 40 nights in the desert or on the mountain “purifies”, but in the sense that the person returns renewed, changed, different. It’s mostly used as generational change, but that can also mean a whole attitude change, change in world-view.

6

Then ultrafiler responded:

I guess. There are good reasons to believe that you’re more up on this sort of thing than I am, so I’ll trust your interpretation.

7

Here’s an additional tidbit for y’all to chew on. I think it can be used best for the “purification” angle, though one maight be able to twist it into the “generation” idea:

Namely, the volume of a mikveh must be at least 40 s’ah of water.

8

Now, it’s my turn.

DSeid:

The reason for most of the 40’s (in addition to Noah, each of Moses’s stays on Mt. Sinai was 40 days) is that 40 represents the number of days it takes from the time a fetus is conceived until the time it’s considered to be “fully formed” in the womb (the subsequent womb-time being mere growth, not new “formation”). Amongst the sins of the flood generation was (according to the Talmudic/Midrashic Rabbis) sexual perversions of various sorts, which “deface the fetus”, thus, they were punished with a flood of 40 days. Moses’s stays on Mt. Sinai were a sort of “rebirth” for him, thus it took 40 days for the task on Sinai to be accomplished.

The 40 years in the desert is unrelated to the other 40’s; it was a punishment for the spies having spent 40 days compiling slander about the land of Canaan/Israel.

The 4’s on Passover (as CKDexterHavn correctly noted, they’re more a Passover thing than a general Torah thing) are intended to correspond to the four words used for redemption in the promise of redemption in Exodus 6:6-7 (in Hebrew, each of these phrases is a single word): “and I will bring (you) out”, “I will free”, “and I will redeem”, “I will take you.”

Not true. Of 15 Judges that Israel had during that period, only 6 can reasonably be said to have judged for periods that are a multiple of 40 - 4 for 40, one for 80, and one for 20, which is a bit of a stretch, to represent a “half-generation.” One judged for 10, which would be a “quarter-generation,” that still makes only seven - leaving the majority of judges having tenures that do not evenly represent some form of “generation.” There’s also one who judged for 8 years, but…a fifth of a generation? Come on. And the other tenures were 1/2 year, 3, 23, 22, 6, 7 and 11. That’s hardly what any rational person would consider a pattern.

9

Thanks Chiam, Ultrafilter, and CKDexter.