Remember, more than anything else, don’t get fooled by “sources” or even direct quotes from Republicans. Judge them by their actions.
If Mitch and the Senate GOP really had the balls to remove the president, don’t you think they’d be on the phone with Pence and all the cabinet demanding his removal? Don’t you think that they’d be racing to get back to the Capitol?
I don’t doubt that McConnell has probably thought about it and weighed his actions, but there’s no action. And if the House GOP’s comments this morning are any indication, nothing is going to change.
As to McConnell, a spontaneous image that came to mind is Saruman betraying Sauron so he can dominate Middle-Earth. Not an exact analogy, but there seem to be elements that fit.
I’m not predicting that anything will change but House Republicans pandering to the Trumpists that put them there and whose votes decide if they return? Not shocking. That even a few crossed over is more of the eyebrow raise.
But again, as seen with the certification vote, House and Senate are different beasts, answering to different political realities and even different political vested self-interests. I don’t know what will happen after impeachment but looking to House GOP comments as an indication I wouldn’t do.
Right, which is why I think a more telling sign is watching McConnell’s, Graham’s, et al’s behavior. It would seem like the GOP has already passed up a chance at the 25th Amendment, and I’ve not seen evidence yet that they’re treating an impeachment trial as an urgent matter.
This is something from someone at The Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission
of the Southern Baptist Convention about the situation. Apparently he has been criticizing Trump all along (I would think a lot of Christians should). It includes statements like:
If you read nothing else, read this: If you can defend this, you can defend anything . If you can wave this away with “well, what about…” or by changing the subject to a private platform removing an account inciting violence as “Orwellian,” then where, at long last, is your limit?
The Dems hold a majority, so the impeachment articles will get through the House despite the opposition of Republicans, and I have somewhat greater hope in the Senate.
Firstly, Senators are elected statewide, rather than in districts, and it’s less likely that a whole state, rather than a single congressional district, will have a majority of sociopaths who support last week’s attempted coup.
Also, reports suggest that McConnell might be persuaded of the benefits, not only to the country but to establishment Republicans like him, of neutering Trump as a possible future candidate, and he might be able to get enough Senators on board with that. Sure, there’s going to be Hawley and Cruz and some others that will never budge, partly because they now see their own political influence as inextricably linked with Trumpism, but there might be enough who are ready to return to the days when Republicans were garden-variety obstructionist assholes.
What really gets me is the language of healing and “coming together” that some Republicans are now using. First of all, fuck you. Second of all, if you Republicans would all grow a spine and vote for impeachment as a bloc, then, despite the massive political differences that will persist, you might at least be able to bring the country back together behind the principle of the rule of law.
I’m really concerned that the professions of many of these rioters (doctors, lawyers, business owners, CEOs, real estate, teachers) demonstrate a rot that cannot be reversed.
The economic anxiety argument has been used a lot to explain Trump’s rise starting with the Republican Party primaries but these people aren’t working the type of jobs that have been associated with the image of the Trump base. These people are well educated, are in the so-called ‘professional managerial class’, probably live in nice houses in suburban neighborhoods. These characteristics were more associated with Romney’s base in 2012.
Which I find so worrying. If these people are radicalized by the cult of Trumpism then how do you start thinking of unity or putting the genie back in the bottle. What if the teachers don’t accept a Wikipedia sourced paper from thier class but they believe random websites stating Obama is being sent to Gitmo or something. What if the doctors don’t prescribe homeopathy but they believe Bill Gates is using microchips in vaccines to depopulate the world and control our every movement.
While I wholeheartedly believe Trump should be impeached and removed, I’m also concerned that if it happens, the GOP will be able to spin a narrative along the lines of OK, we did our duty and got rid of the guy who caused all the trouble. Let’s move on.
Then when Biden’s justice department pursues the dozens of crimes Trump, his family and his cronies have surely committed the last four years, the narrative will shift to We punished the bad guy! Democrats are more concerned with the past than solving problems in the present!
I know we can’t not do what’s right because of what Republicans will say later, but how do we remove Trump without it playing like “mission accomplished”?
Which Senator blocked a nomination of Merrick Garland?
Which Senator shoved three right wing justices down the throats of Americans, including one just before the election, contrary to the very reasons he opposed taking up Garland’s nomination in 2016?
McConnell refused to publicly declare that Biden won the election, and when he finally acknowledged that the judicial system had been exhausted in pursuing challenge’s to the election results, what was his response?
Blockquote The Electoral College has spoken’: McConnell congratulates Joe Biden as president-elect
Not “the people have spoken,” but the electoral college – because people’s votes don’t matter that much.
I will hold out for the possibility that this could change, but let’s wait and see how they behave first. I remain skeptical that an entire political party can, for four years lay prostrate in a show of fealty for an avatar of white nationalism, and then just change a few days later. Rehabilitation requires a bottoming out, an acknowledge that you’ve bottomed out, and then an expressed desire to seek change and growth.
Agreed. Not statements of any sort, inclusive of ones that say nothing will happen until Jan 19 at the earliest. His behavior may follow that statement. Might not. He personally is not worried about re-election any more. He’s gotten the judges he wanted. He does want to regain Senate control in two years and to have power to shape the future of the GOP. Which actions best serve those ends? His best interest may be the action of convicting Trump. He’s calculating that out. Granularly thinking about each Senate seat open in two years and each action or inaction does to those odds.
What you’ve described is what psychologists have described as relative deprivation. They may or may not be working class, but nevertheless sense a loss of status or power, or that their status has been challenged in a meaningful way.
I assume there are some very cool conversations taking place to determine what actions will be in the best interest of the people at the top. McConnel has benefitted from the Trump umbrella leaving him a free hand in his Republican Senate. He is about to loose both Trump and the Senate. Trump is no longer an asset. In fact the will be a severe impediment in the run up to 2022. Surely they are considering unloading Trump.
If you reflexively think of it as “Biden’s” justice department, then any prosecution of any Republican for any reason will be thought of as persecution. They’re never going to not do that. They’re going to do that even if no one is prosecuted. Since they’re going to do it anyway, there’s no reason to not prosecute people if they’ve done something deserving of it.
As a non-believer, it has always seen to me that the more evangelical a religion gets - such as the no dancing, no drinking folk at Wheaton, the more it relies on the gullibility of its members. At least some elements of all organized religion can be viewed as a “long con”?
Re: impeachment, sure, there will likely not be a conviction. But I think there IS some value in forcing elected officials to stand up and take a position at this point, as to whether or not they condemn these actors/actions. We do not yet know what will be turned up WRT the severity/extent of what underlay 1/6 insurrection. I think the evidence will continue to pile up, and people will increasingly try to distance themselves from it. While it might not be solely determinative in any particular election, I think it is of value to be able to point out that, when given the opportunity to condemn the insurrectionists, certain people chose to instead align with them.
I 100% agree the DOJ should prosecute wherever appropriate. My question is more about the public relations aspect. Maybe I can rephrase it: How can we punish Trump without making him the exclusive scapegoat for everything reprehensible his administration and the GOP has done since 2016?
From what exactly are they threatened that they willingly threw away their jobs and reputation for good? That’s what I don’t understand about the cult of Trump. These people didn’t fear an Obama presidency so much to want to overthrow the election by force in 2009 but they are so scared about Obama’s more conservative No.2 being in charge now. It makes no sense.
There is a book I’m going to recommend if you want insight into fundamentalist evangelicalism. It’s not a well-known book. I would’ve never bought it if it wasn’t a Kindle Daily Deal. It’s a memoir, which is not my favorite literary format, but it’s one of the most enlightening books I ever read.
The book is I Fired God by Joyce Zichterman . She lays out the abuse and corruption inside her Fundamentalist Baptist church in a very clear and readable manner, and her work has been used as a foundation for criminal prosecutions.
Her church, and many like them, impose a highly authoritarian structure on the lives of their members. Critical thinking and independent ideas are the work of the devil. Self-empowerment is heretical. These people are taught to look up when they are searching for answers instead of looking inside. They like it when the answers they get from above are clear, unambiguous, strong and simple. Nuance and shaded, well-reasoned positions are weak. The answers they seek are “good or evil?”, “black or white?” If you say it’s “gray”, they don’t know what to do or think and you lose credence as a leader.
They are weak people, raised to be the soldiers of God.
The decision tree is a straight line. Wife and kids——-husband——-pastor——God. These groups are insular and think the secular world is looking to destroy them. They were ready for a Trump. They are what I call a cult-in-waiting.
They are out there. I am fascinated by cults, I’ve read dozens of books about cults. They are way more common than you think, probably.
Sometimes, frequently even, there is a insular highly bonded group that subscribes to the hierarchical decision making structure I’ve described above. All they need to become a cult is a powerful abusive leader. Sometimes that leader evolves, the pastor that gradually becomes more abusive and controlling. Sometimes that leader comes from outside.
And, this one time, he was elected President of the United States.
Trump came into an evangelical community that was primed to receive him. The evangelical leadership inserted him into the decision tree of their cult between pastor and God. He gave them that easily understandable black and white world that they longed for. He affirmed every bias they held. He assured them they were right and the outside world wrong.
For years, these people that thought they were special in the eyes of God sometimes didn’t feel so special. They performed the same blue collar routines day after day, hauling the water for the secular world that disrespected them. Every day they got a little older and a little flabbier. They watched their wives get less attractive and their dicks get less reliable, day by day, as the world ignored them, laughed at them and passed them by.
These were men with a mission, raised to be soldiers of God, wondering if that God had forsaken him.
Then came Trump and they found their purpose. They knew why they had been put on this earth.
I’m not sure that I agree with this. By my count, 24 states voted for Trump, and all of these states but two have two GOP Senators; two of these states have one of each party. So that’s 46 Senators from Trump-supporting states. A 2/3 vote for conviction will need 27 Republican Senators. I think it will be hard to find 27 of these 46 to vote in favor of convicting the man that their state just supported for president.
I think, as suggested above, that McConnell wants the House to impeach, knowing that the Senate won’t convict. And he’s hoping that will be enough to begin the purge to remove the hold that Trumpism has on the party.