I’m not only referring to the recent movie. I haven’t seen it and don’t intend to until it’s on TNT or whatever; I decided long before MAN OF STEEL that Zack Snyder would get no more of my money. But a few things I’ve gleaned about it have aroused my curiosity about the state of DC “mythology” in general.
Given the relative ages of Ben Affleck and the fellow playing Superman, and some bits I’ve seen in trailers indicating homages to THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, I get the impression that in the movie universe, Batman has not only retired in this universe, but his entire active career preceded Superman’s first appearance in MoS. Is this correct?
Does Batman’s public career also precede Superman’s in the New 52? I ask because traditionally – that is, in the Silver Age and post-Crisis DCU – Superman was either the first superhero period (SA) or the first hero after a long period of no active ones (PC). In either case Supes was largely the inspiration for other costomed heroes of his generation (and perhaps overall). Is that now the case for Bats? In-story, is the contemporary Superman seen by himself or others are following Batman’s lead in costuming and career?
In the movie, is Batman’s antipathy toward Superman the result of Lex Luthor’s
machinations or his own basic paranoia? The former seems odd, since Batman’s whole deal is that he’s immensely smart; you’d think he’d see through a Luthor-sponsored anti-Superman PR effort, if only because Luthor would have negative credibility on any such issue. Am I right here/.
He seems active enough, though indeed older and established, though not really internationally famous - he’s just some crazy Gotham vigilante who seems to operate with the full tolerance of the Gotham Police, which non-Gothamites like Perry White seem to take as a further sign of the city’s deep and worsening depravity.
My personal opinion is that Luthor should have been better (and non-Eisenberged) and it should have been clearer that he and Batman were independently developing anti-Superman safeguards, though Luthor was fully intending to use them while Batman kept telling himself (insincerely) that his was just a emergency plan and not motivated by personal revenge and such.
Frankly, I’m willing to just write the movie off and turn my eyes to the future. The character’s first (-ish) encounter in the comics (Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent are made to share quarters on a cruise ship) is also pretty dumb, but it led to decades of good buddy stories.
I enjoyed the movie a lot, but you have touched on a couple of the things I saw as flaws:
First, I think Ben Affleck was the wrong choice for Batman, though he did play the role pretty well. He just seems too old for the part, and not really a good fit. Also, the Batman he portrayed was different from the traditional character in significant ways, e.g., use of guns, ratty looking costume and no particular physical skills other than punching people.
Second, I like Jesse Eisenberg a lot as an actor, and I think he could have played an amazing Lex Luthor, if only he had done so. Unfortunately, it seems he was playing the Joker instead. Luthor is a sociopath, cold and calculating, not a psychotic who babbles incoherently.
But, hey, it’s fiction. The movie was still a lot of fun, and I’m interested in seeing where the storyline goes from here.
Oh, I know all about the long history of Bats & Supes in the comics I used to own a mint condition issue of that cruise ship adventure, and I enjoyed the early 2000s reinterpretation with Deathstroke and Faux!Deadpool as the villains and Lois spending much of the story mocking both Bruce and Clark.
Can’t comment on the movie, as I haven’t seen it, but…
Eeeeh, it’s hard to really tell…the timeline is a bit screwy and Year Zero sort of contradicts the early relaunch issues. He was definitely active before Superman went public (Year Zero vs Year One), but…how public it is is hard to really gauge…
Year Zero presents Batman as more or less publicly active in the year before Superman went public in Metropolis, albeit during a crisis that made mass communication difficult (Riddler’s doing) and without quite the polish he had later. But this sort-of-contradicts early issues of Justice League, where Batman is actively, and successfully, cultivating the whole ‘rumour and urban legend’ thing until the League goes active (Green Lantern is shocked that he exists and won’t stop babbling about it). It’s not impossible to reconcile these two accounts, but it takes a few leaps of faith.
Also, when Batman and Green Lantern first meet Superman, Clark’s in his Kryptonian costume, but they’re treating him as a complete unknown quantity, whereas he was already active long enough to make a bit of a name for himself before the encounter where he got it. (Hal it kind of works, since he’d have been offplanet, training, and early Hal is a bit of a bonehead in current continuity, but there’s no way Bruce didn’t know about the guy with the powers in Metropolis.)
So…Bruce was definitely active first, but probably by no more than a year, and just how publicly is quite questionable.
Nah, Deadgets sword through head wasn’t a villain he was…
Well, a wildcard, mostly…but he was there to get the actual villains, Owlman and Ultraman. (I think Superwoman was there, too? Been a longass time since I read it, and I mostly remember the running gag about Deadbarrelled out of the room never actually getting to introduce himself.)
I watched the cartoon adaptation recently, and in that Bats has investigated Supe before that meeting; he knew Clark’s secret identity and had a satellite (!) to track him, because apparently Bruce is a TRILLIONAIRE able to spend endless sums on anything. But happily he had absolutely nothing (at least in his standard gear) that could affect Martha & Jonathan’s little boy; even quickly realized that fighting a pissed-off Supes was hopeless for anyone not named Darkseid.
The animated version is about 1000% better than the comic version…I’ve got a couple quibbles (like Clark bouncing Hal around like a superball, rather than decking him once before Bruce got between them), but…yeah…
Batfleck has been Batman for some time at the start of the movie - at least five years, maybe closer to ten - but he’s not retired at all, and is still actively fighting crime. His methods are getting more brutal, though - he’s recently taken to branding particularly vile criminals.
It’s been a while, but as I recall, Batman when DC rebooted again, Batman had been active for a few years before the other heroes started showing up. However, this period was more of the “urban legend” version of Batman. The first thing Green Lantern says when they meet is, “You’re real?!” So he’s not the inspiration for the sudden explosion of costumed crime fighters - rather, it’s the appearance of other people like him that legitimizes him and allows him to become a (marginally) more public figure.
Both. Bruce Wayne is in Metropolis for the big, city-leveling fight between Superman and Zod at the end of Man of Steel in a hilariously illogical scene that opens the film, and is worried that, if Superman decides not to be a good guy, there’s essentially nothing on Earth that could stop him. Bruce Wayne, in this movie, is also a total fucking idiot, so he’s hamhandedly manipulated by Luthor into picking a fight with Superman.
And those who are branded wind up dead in prison. Not 100% clear why it isn’t a badge of honor. Some say it’s because he only does it to sexual abusers and such, maybe?
I’m also confused by the New 52 reboot. Some of the characters, like Superman and Wonder Woman, start over from scratch. Yet Aquaman is clearly known to the public. Green Lantern and Batman don’t appear to be rebooted at all. Green Lantern retained all of its characters and the entire continuity Geoff Johns has been building up for the last decade. Likewise, Batman just kept rolling and characters like Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, and Tim Drake were retained. This implies to me that Batman has decades of backstory.
It is very bothersome and a big part of why I have basically given up on reading DC at all.
