A parting gift for the homophobes

Try.

This goes for awd_dsm, also.

Talk to Jesus first: “Lord, I am a poor sinner. Satan moves in the world and confuses me. I need to know if I am truly following Your Word and doing Your will. I must explore the source of my earthly desires. I will endeavor not to fall into the sin of lust.”

Then try to be attracted to somebody of your own sex. And not just fleetingly, either. Give it some time – a month to be sure, a week at minimum. Try to choose a new orientation, the way you say homosexuals choose theirs. Don’t think about sex; just be open to the attractive qualities of people of your own sex.

H4E, you’re a woman, so look at other women. Imagine spending your life with one. Imagine making a commitment to one. Imagine the softness of a woman’s lips, and how the kiss is very different from a man’s kiss, which usually includes a bit of scratchy stubble. Imagine going on a date with a woman, sitting across from the table from her, looking into her eyes, laughing at her jokes, and feeling that wonderful/horrible nervousness of uncertainty: Is she the one? I like her, does she like me? You don’t need to go on an actual date; just imagine yourself doing so, and spend the week looking around at the women around you for candidates. If you spot a good one, try to get gooshy around her. Choose to be tongue-tied and awkward. Decide to blush at inappropriate moments. Speed up your heartbeat.

awd_dsm, you’re a guy, so your assignment is the above, with males. Again, don’t think about sex. Think about making an emotional commitment to a man. Imagine putting your arm around your partner, but instead of a softly sloping shoulder, it’s a firm, muscular back. Imagine you’re at a basketball game, and the man you live with is sitting next to you, cheering with you. Imagine yourself alone at home, waiting for your life partner; the phone rings, it’s his deep voice, and you get the same tiny thrill you always do when you hear him say, “Hello, my love.” And as above, look around at the men in your life for possible candidates. Don’t tell anyone what you’re doing; this is for you and you alone. Really see the striking jawline of this man, or the smooth skin of that man. If you were to be with someone, would you prefer him to have facial hair or be clean-shaven? Do you like men who are tough, or who are smart, or who are funny? Are you impressed by that man’s career, or that other man’s motorcycle? When you’re talking to a man you find interesting, can you make your palms get sweaty, and can you get your blood to roar thickly in your ears? And the next morning, is he the first person you think of when you wake up? Do you immediately start thinking about how to plan your day such that you get to spend time with him?

Seriously. Try to choose. Try to consciously decide who you find attractive. Try it. I dare you.

I know what you’re saying to yourself. You don’t want to do it. You think you’re opening yourself to Satan’s influence. You think if you do this, you will open a door to evil and allow yourself to be corrupted. You will refuse to do this in order to stay pure.

That’s your out-loud rationalization, though. The reason you won’t do it is that, deep down, you know you’ll fail. You know you’re wrong. You know it isn’t a choice. You know homosexuals did not choose, and cannot choose differently. If you honestly believed that, you wouldn’t be a coward about potentially being proven wrong.

And you are cowards, both of you.

{sigh}

:frowning:

Esprix

AWD –

You think everyone is born straight but some choose to be gay? Surely you realize that being gay in our society is very difficult – in large part because of people such as you. Why would anyone choose to be gay? Could you choose to be gay?

This is so touchingly naive. First, people add to the human race in myriad ways that have nothing to do with reproduction. Reproduction is only one aspect of societal advancement in a cooperative society. Think about it: If you discovered tomorrow that you couldn’t have a child, couldn’t you still be a productive member of society? Second, children are not “by-products,” they are children. Third, it is not necessarily true that “a non-gay relationship almost always has a child.” In fact, and as surely you must know at the advanced age of nineteen, people are capable of having relationships without having kids – and they frequently do.

No, it isn’t, and to say that it is makes you appear like an unthinking knuckle-dragger. In modern society, violence is almost never the answer, and indeed individual violence is liable to be severely punished severely by law. Why do you think violence is “the answer”?

I am the person who is telling you that your opinions are not based upon logic, and in fact do not make any sense. There is no reason to think that people choose to be gay; no one who knows anything about the subject thinks sexual orientation is a choice, anymore than having blue eyes is a choice. There is no reason to think that being violent is the answer to societal problems.

Frankly, you sound very young, and very insecure in your own sexuality. You sound like you haven’t really thought your opinions through and you frankly come across as a person not much given to thinking at all. Yes, you have the right to post your opinions on this message board. (Well, actually, it’s a privilege, not a right.) But then I in turn havae the right to point out that they don’t really make a lot of sense.

See how that works? There you go!

“severely punished severely”

This post brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.

I know. But I have to cling to a little hope, right?

awd: I read your posts, and have a strongly mixed response. Yes, you have a right to your opinions, and the privilege to post them here, by virtue of your board membership. And everybody else has the similar privilege to comment on them. Harry Truman had the quote, “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.” Perhaps you are more aware of what he meant by it now.

There are several comments to be made to what you said. First, every person has the right to be left unmolested in living his life as he wants, including your right not to be propositioned by gay people at urinals. Though I do confess to some question as to why it arouses so negative a response in you – would not telling the offender to get lost serve the purpose equally well without physical assault? I think in defending the rights of gays to live their lives, people lost sight of your point there.

Second, when every gay person, IRL and on this board, has been unanimous in stating that being gay was not something they chose but something they discovered that they were (see the touching posts of andygirl and Cap’n Amazing in this thread, among many, many others), and a handful of people who are not themselves gay, and many of whom have a political agenda advanced by the issue, assert that it was indeed their choice to be gay, reason indicates that we believe the gay people as testifying the truth about themselves. You do realize that they are talking about their sexual orientation, not their sex lives, do you not? Certainly anybody can and does make choices about whether to have sex and with whom, but none of us are able to suddenly decide that, say, beautiful young buxom blondes are no longer going to seem sexy to me and fat hairy 50-year-old men are going to in their place.

Your point about a life having purpose insofar as it engenders children touches a sore spot with me. Uncle Toby pushed my jitter trigger and I called him out in this thread for reasons explained I hope fully in my OP there.

I hope you will think through your position and respond level-headedly to those of us who have disagreed with you, some not so politely.

as_wpe:
My former husband was gay, and he produced our child (the natural way).
So there!

awd_dsm

I’m not gay, but even if I were, I suspect my tastes are far too discriminating for me too consider the likes of you. Also, with an IQ as low as yours seems to be, I would suspect that you haven’t quite mastered the art of wiping after you shit.

It would be a dull as you are.
So to you i say FUCK OFF
[/QUOTE]

There is a difference between having a reasoned opinion and being stupid. In addition, just because you have an opinion doesn’t mean that the rest of us have to sit here and listen to your mindless drivel.

You’ve obviously confused interesting with stupid again, haven’t you? I would end this by suggesting that you run off and go fuck yourself, but chances are you already have.

I know of one gay man on this board who is raising a beautiful 7 year old son, who is his natural child. I won’t named him as he is careful to protect his son. But he knows I think he is awesome.

Andy! I cried, like so many others here. That was beautiful. Thank you for posting it.

Jodi, you rock! I too would like you in my corner if I ever need a lawyer( redundant or not)

Guys, guys: Iif you don’t stop saying nice things to me, people are going to find out I’m paying you to do it.

Um, was that my out-loud voice? Ah, well, checks are in the mail.
[sub]Thanks[/sub] :slight_smile:

andygirl,

Other people have already said it, but I wanted to let you know that your story moved me to tears as well. I can’t imagine how difficult it must have been for you to write. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.

My father is gay. He hates himself and is an unreachable man. It is incredibly sad but once you have been put on trial for sodomy you kind of lose faith in human beings I think. My being queer and out doesn’t help matters at all. Here lies one incredibly dysfunctional family because of the history of bigotry against gays, ironically at the time of my father’s arrest homosexuality was designated as a mental illness yet he was treated as a criminal. Go figure.

That is why I will fight fundies wherever I find them. My life would have been screwed over by them even if I was straight because of what was done to my Dad and what that made him.

Besides, if God was serious about homosexuality being so wrong he would have put it in the big list of 10 somewhere above nicking a pack of chewing gum from the 7-11. I wish the fundies would go picket the courts and annoy the thieves instead of the queers for a while, at least they have done something we can all agree is wrong.

Meanwhile I suppose the fundies should be very pleased that my love and I are separated by an ocean because the influence they have over laws in the US is so great I cannot enter there as a spouse despite a relationship of 3 years standing with much time together. I could of course nick to vegas with someone I meet on the plane and marry him and be allowed to stay. Instead the USA will be losing a great productive and contributing woman who works very hard in her church, her community and at her job and who is raising a great kid the US will get to educate and lose as soon as he is old enough to travel between parents on different continents himself.

He shows every sign of being straight but we’ll take him anyway.

Your loss.

I have a son. He’ll be five in November. His mother is lesbian. I’m gay. Here’s the story, if you’re interested.

WOW! What a great story Homebrew.

You are lucky to have your son. I know mine has been the salvation of my life this last year.

Both my hubby and I are bi… or something… there is some gender confusion thrown in there just to keep us guessing!:smiley:

I guess bottom line to this thread is : You don’t bite me, I won’t bite you… unless you want me to bite you of course

I am glad you bought your story up Homebrew because I was totally in lurker mode when it first appeared but I remember it well because it could so easily have been written by a man I once lived with and still love very much, just not in that way.

Thanks

Two words: lesbian seagull.

I love Richard Bach’s work.

While this thread has on display some of the most shining (or dull) examples of stubborn ignorance, it also has the most well-orchestrated and well-written wisdom I have ever read.

andy, my heart hurts reading your struggle, and if I ever had any doubts that homosexuality wasn’t a choice, all those doubts are gone.

Cervaise, your post was, well, I’m at a loss for words. A lot of these fundies focus only the sexual aspect of being gay, and perceive gays and lesbians as promiscuous hedonists. Fundies don’t see that they have innocent crushes, and fall hopelessly in love like straight people do, and isn’t that what really counts? Falling in love is the most beautiful thing in the world, and your post drove that home.

And, finally, Jodi, deal with it. Shred the evidence if you must, and I’m expecting my check to be sent through Priority Mail. Seriously, though, your wisdom and getting to know people like MrVisible, Esprix, matt_mcl, and andygirl have helped people like me, who grew up in a closed-minded rural town, to gain a better understanding of alien concepts like homosexuality. Thank you very much, I am a better person because of you.

By the way, my fiancee and I have a friend who is gay. He wanted to perform our wedding ceremony, and became ordained to do such things. So there, we have a gay guy marrying us (ironic, how you guys can’t get married, but can marry couples). So are we going to hell? |:d (Neanderthal smilie)

Great post Cervaise!!

I tried to choose the latter, but this comment sealed the deal:

There ain’t nutin’ finer.

-LC

goes all schmoopy

That’s one of the nicest things anyone’s said to me in a long time.