I’m guessing you’re being facetious, but just in case: Trump was claiming his actions had no victims. The banks were victims and were harmed, even if they were stupid, just as any fraud victim is harmed despite (or due to) being stupid.
An individual who’s the victim of fraud can be of average or low intelligence or uninformed.
Banks and their employees at that level should know their business. There’s no excuse for not checking Trump’s claims on the value of his properties.
This confuses me - don’t banks verify the values of properties before loaning against those properties? No due diligence on the bank’s part?
Yeah…I’m not sure the banks are victims in that sense here.
From what I can tell, the banks’ valuations were more in line with reality. That’s the point, though, right? Different people got different numbers. The taxman got really low valuations, the ‘good’ people at Fortune got really high valuations, and the banks probably ran their own numbers.
The few banks who would still do business with him in more recent years (most of the reputable ones not even bothering anymore - recall all the talk about Trump owing money to underworld figures, including the Russia mob as they’d still take his calls) figured they were on the inside of the scams. In the latter case, like Deutsch Bank, it seems to be the actions of a few less scrupulous employees looking for a pay day.
I’m not here to defend the banks. I’m just pointing out the bullshit behind Trump’s claims that there were no victims of his actions. IANAL, but I don’t see where being stupid on the banks’ part excuses fraud on Trump’s part.
Or do you agree that Trump should not be punished for his fraudulent actions?
Plus, my casual understanding is that Trump actively interfered with independent appraisal–I recall him forbidding note taking, among other things. Plus, if you are intentionally misrepresenting zoning and agreements, that muddies the water further.
“Your honor, we freely admit that my client got money from the victim by claiming to be a prince from Nigeria who needed to get 25 million in cash transferred to a bank account. But you see, the supposed victim has a university degree, and should have known this was a scam. They were stupid. Therefore, my client deserves to walk free, because it’s the victims fault they were stupid.”
Not sure this is a winning play.
You may be stupid for walking down a dark alley at night, but your mugger is still committing a crime.
Obviously, Trump should pay the price for committing fraud. I just don’t think the banks were innocent victims.
Brilliant!
Did anyone claim the banks were innocent? They could be negligent, lazy, foolish victims without a shred of innocence to them, and in my view they are, but they’re still victims of Trump’s even more rapacious greed and fraud.
No - tRump should be punished with extreme prejudice.
I’ve seen numerous MAGAtrash comments about banks being at fault for their own carelessness and I wonder why banks wouldn’t have a VERY good idea of a property’s value before lending millions of dollars against that property.
They’re no more victims than a professional magician is a victim of 3 card Monte.
And yet, the professional magician can be a victim of Three Card Monte. A magician shouldn’t be, but still can be.
You can argue that they might not deserve much sympathy, but they still deserve justice and equal protection under the law.
And not to mention other real estate developers who are competing for similar projects and funding, who lose the business to Trump because they are honest with lenders and pay their taxes while Trump cheats.
I agree, but I think this case fairly reflects that. Unless I’m mistaken, this case is NY vs Trump, and none of the financial penalties from this case go to the banks.
Nope. Unlike a layman, banks have the money, resources and knowledge to verify claims such as Trump’s.
If you or I were to make such a claim to our bank, we would be subject to a financial colonoscopy. Even though Trump was well known as an inveterate liar, they took his word for it.
Like I said, foolish, lazy, and negligent. More than likely, corrupt themselves.
Doesn’t begin to make Trump innocent.
I know the thread has moved on a bit, but I’m still catching up. Thanks very much, @commasense, for the Peter Thiel article; it was a - uh - fascinating read.
Anyone else remember ancient adverts for monkey glands?
j
The what?
There was a short lived fad in the 1920s of grafting testicles tissue from chimpanzees into men. It was supposed to make them more virile.