This isn’t one woman’s word against Trump’s.
This isn’t a boring question about real estate valuations where blame is pinned on an underling
This is “The. Big. One”.
Top Secret Documents.
Locked rooms.
Interesting stuff, which the public can understand (unlike boring complex issues like taxes)
But …so what?
I’m so tired of hearing, yet again, that “this time it’s real, and Trump will have to quit”.
I’m afraid that this trial will be more of the same.
A lot of air time for all the talking heads on TV, but no actual damage to Trump.
My guess is that the trial, currently set for next year in March, will get postponed till after the election in November.
Then Trump will pardon himself.
Tell me I’m wrong,
Please, tell me I’m wrong.
(And show your work.
Your final grade will be listed on your report card, next November)
I think you’re wrong. The people doing this work are serious people, who don’t have to worry about running for office. They have years of experience in government and public service, and they all know exactly how serious violations related to classified documents are. They also know that letting Trump skate on these charges will do serious damage to the United States, on just so many levels.
So, no, I don’t think they’ll tolerate his usual BS, and I also think that’s going to freak Trump right out. None of his usual nonsense will have any affect on them, and he’ll be left floundering, with no better plans to fall back on.
18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation:
“Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.”
I hope you’re right, @Horatius. It’s just that past disappointments like the Mueller investigation make me feel like we could still be unpleasantly surprised.
Recall that Trump has lost pretty much every case/argument he’s taken to court in the last several years. The BS that has served him so well in swaying the easily deluded has been shot down with a vengeance. With the exception of Cannon, the courts really do not like him. Even the conservative Trump approved judges realize that he represents an overturning of the rule of law. And that rule of law is the cause they have devoted their lives to.
There’s no way to be sure until it happens. AFAICT, what’s happening is likely the best possible chance to hold Trump accountable long-term. Hopefully it will work out.
But that’s just it. He gets Cannon for this. My view is this trial will be a farce with a hostile judge. We’ll have to wait for the appeal after the trial to try and salvage some justice.
Yep, and it’s important to contrast those cases to the sorts of cases he used to be involved in, pre-2016. He was used to playing games in civil court cases, over commercial disputes, where the only stakes were money, and the courts were pretty lenient about letting him drag things out, and drive up the costs of litigation, so that lots of people settled with him just to end the torture. He “won” because he had more money and time than most of the people he was suing or being sued by.
But these criminal cases are different. There’s more at stake here than just money, there’s important real-world consequences of trivial delays, and the prosecutors aren’t spending their own money to drag Trump into court. They can just keep spending, at least until some political financial authority tells them to stop. Trump can’t just out-spend these people.
I think he really doesn’t get how different this is going to be.
It’s not for certain. I did a little sleuthing and learned there is a path for Smith to challenge Cannon’s assignment to this case. I expect he’ll pursue it, and I think he’s got a good shot at getting it assigned to a different judge.
Smith can first ask Cannon to self-recuse. If she refuses, he can then make an application to the presiding judge to move the case because he doesn’t believe Cannon can be fair. If the presiding judge doesn’t agree, Smith can then appeal to the Eleventh Circuit. And we’ve already seen what they think about Cannon’s prior rulings.
We’ll see what happens, but I don’t think this issue is yet settled on the judicial assignment.
Sure, but not nearly as much as a civil case – which is what the matter was before Cannon previously. The special master issue was not a criminal action. The time constraints on criminal cases is much tighter.
I think we all suspect the rule of law in the US has failed. And “suspect” may be too weak a word. But this is real deal stealing state secrets espionage. If any of us did any of this, we’d be in a secret ship roaming the oceans with multiple electrodes attached to our genitals. If Trump does not see the inside of a jail cell, there will be absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the rule of law in the United States is over.
His other crimes are very serious and should land him in jail for several times the rest of his life, but this - stealing state secrets and probably selling them - is something everyone can immediately understand as incredibly serious with no ambiguity whatsoever. If we can’t book him on this, and if we can’t get his cult to detach a little bit from his balls (after all, the RAH RAH PATRIOTISM military worship crowd should be fucking vomiting at the idea of selling state military/nuclear secrets), we will know without a doubt that the rule of law as well any sort of sense of state responsibility or basically anything to do with large-scale governance is utterly destroyed.
You will also see that the conservative base in the US loves the republican party and Donald Trump in particular more than they love their country, which should be a hard pill for both themselves and the more “moderate” conservatives to swallow, but here we are.
She’s not an experienced judge. Her experience and track record are far from what a court would want for the most complex and high profile case that will be tried this century. That alone would be a good basis to reassign the case to another judge – or even for her to recuse herself.
ETA: To respond to the OP.
Yes, it matters. Although we are all weary and terrified re the potential outcome of this hugely consequential case, best get settled in. We’re far from a resolution and even under the best circumstances, I believe this will be a marathon. It’s understandable why some are losing faith in our judicial system – which is an outcome wished for by MAGAs – but it’s worth noting that to date, it has held.
We are at a critical juncture in our history as a nation. I think this indictment matters more than almost anything to our future as a democratic country.
Just a reminder that the feds do not indict if they don’t think they have a very strong chance of winning. In Florida, they have a 90-something percent conviction rate.