Pretty strong and well-balanced statements, Scotti. Even though I feel like I need an insulin shot with all the gratuitous sweetness going on in here. (as an aside, I think the hugs and happy-warm-fuzziness get spread a little thickly online, just like the anger does, and comes across as phony from time to time. And I’m talking about the group at large, not you)
I’m kind of ashamed that I appear to have been a primary inspiration for this thread. In my defense, when faced with an over-the-top inappropriate post directed at me, I purposely responded in kind in order to make a point.
Now, you might say the fact that I wasn’t expressing emotion that I felt, that I intentionally said what I said rather than having an outburst of “righteous anger” makes it worse, especially since I’m a Christian. And you’d be right. But also in my defense, I am making a real effort to make myself into a “kinder, gentler” person, both online and in real life. And I had decided on this course of action before I was aware of this thread’s existence, so it’s not just a phony response to an external rebuke.
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know I read and agree with what you said here.
By the way, I don’t think I’ve ever told you what your name reminds me of:
Remember the old Peanuts cartoons, where Snoopy would dance like mad? He would always sing “Polkas, Schottisches, and Waltzes…Polkas, Schottisches, and Waltzes…”
It’s definitely possible to have Pit threads where members work out their differences with respect and civility. Poly and I worked together in one such thread to come to a mutual understanding. I also made a similar recent attempt with UncleBeer, although that one was intercepted and closed.
My point is that the Pit doesn’t have to be a place just to curse and fight. It can be a place to facilitate understanding.
I’ve been aroubd long enough to notice that the Pit is cyclical. Things get really heated, with much wailing and gnashing of teeth, personal insults flung about and many hurt feelings. Then things calm down and the Pit gets boring for a while. Then it all starts up again and gradually escalates, and so on.
The “Why can’t we all get along?” threads bug me, but maybe they’re a necessary part of the cycle.
You, sir, commit vile acts of immoral turpitude with moribund perissodactyls suffering from loathsome diseases! How dare you suggest something like that!
As I was reading the first post, I wanted to say hateful things to you and type out long dissertations on why your head would be better used as a monkey’s fruit bowl. This is not because I dislike you or your ideas, rather I do not like arguments. It is rather because I am sarcastic and have a warped sense of humor and would find it funny to reply to your plea for non-hate with hate. Haha, I’m an ass. Anyway, I will refrain from doing what I previously mentioned I want to because right now I lack the attention span necessary to complete a post and my reply would be a jumbled bunch of words that have no logical connection. In the future, I would suggest just reading posts from a different forum.
Um, much as I understand the impulse, I find it a little odd.
Observation: People in the Pit are taking way too much of their aggression out in what is, fundamentally, inconsequential to everyday Life.
And this observation is itself consequential enough to write a thread about? No, it’s just inconsequantial[sup]2[/sup].
And of course, that irony makes it even odder for me to comment ;). Fundamentally, though, it’s the reason I agree with Geobabe. So it’s a hot pit these days. So what? Stick around, the weather will change.
There is a good reason why women are often the necessary “make nice” civilizing influences in this contentious world of ours and the estrogen content of this thread demonstrates that nicely. Social life would be impossible without your mediating and calming influence and all things considered the pit probably does need to cool down a tad.
Having said that let’s not pretend what this thread is really about. It is only tangentially about the “unban Satan” thread crapfest currently winding down, it’s really mainly about the beating lee and her lover took in the angry thread she started cudgeling Ukelele Ike over the head for making a fairly harmless, if slightly snarky little joke which devolved into the huge and ferocious “evil disney-woman sperm” shouting match.
While I defended U. Ike in the beginning I didn’t have a dog in the middle of the main points of contention in that fight, but I’m not going to pretend I didn’t think that lee brought most of the ferocity in that exchange on herself with her pugnacious and derisive attitude toward the sentiments of others and they responded in kind. Many unkind things were said in that thread and after lee provided the “woman sperm” opening a lot of posters that were already pissed at her jumped into the breech and had great and cruel fun at her expense.
We can “tsk-tsk” a lot of the people being nasty in that thread all we want after the fact for mocking KellyM and lee’s position on the immorality of Disney movies while celebrating their highly unusual relationship, and in retrospect some of those comments (and the counters) were unnecessarily personal and harsh, but given the way the thread developed and the contentious dynamic involved and the visibly rising tempers on both sides it’s easy to see in hindsight what happened and I’m not going to blame Diane and others any more than I blame lee and company for the outcome of that thread and it’s highly judgmental and personal tone on both sides.
In any case it’s over, and having said all this I do think this thread needed to be stickied because that thread got right to the bleeding edge of acceptable discourse and sometime we need to see the edge of the precipice in order to back off and take stock of ourselves and the nature of our interactions.
Actually, I’m endlessly impressed with the high level of couresy on this board compared to just about any other I could name, whether general- or specialty-interest. I think one of the main reasons for this is the presence of the Pit, where all the outraged, hard done by or just easily irritated amongst the Teeming Millyuns can state their grievances without crapping all over the other forums. I’d even go so far as to say that, Pit excepted, “common courtesy” is not nearly as common in real life as it is on the SDMB.
That said, I have no problem at all with the flamefests in the Pit. Personally, I find it a bit sad when posters for whom I have a lot of respect blow up in a spittle-flying frenzy over one slight or another, but frankly, it shows little more than an inability to control one’s temper, and an inability to think ahead. Furthermore, some of the posters that come through here simply can’t help being jerks, and taking them to the Pit has vital role in showing them that their behavior is unacceptable, without tying up the rest of the boards or, through banning, silencing their voices altogether.
I obstinately believe that most of the posters here can figure out for themselves who is being reasonable and who is being an ass in one of the cited threads, and in the long term, the main victims of these flamefests usually end up being those who choose to sabotage their own credibility by bullying or intemperate frothing at the mouth.
So to sum up, yeah, there’s certainly been a lot of pointless bickering here lately, but all anyone has to do to stop it is simply walk away from the keyboard. Those who don’t should realize that they aren’t doing anything for their reputations by escalating a fight; OTOH, if some folks are bound and determined to make public spectacles of themselves in the Pit, then I certainly won’t stand in their way.
Pssshaw, this ain’t nuthin’. I remember the old AOL days when we couldn’t use swear words (except ass ass ass as much as we wanted) and actually had to be creative in our vitrol.
THOSE flames were brutal.
As far as the OP. I love Scotti, but I am of the opinion that no one is forced to participate or read Pit threads unless they want to.
Cheri, I understand and even share your feelings, to an extent. Taking exception to what someone says and Pitting them is perfectly natural, and the reason this forum exists. But using it as an excuse to vent a lot of hostility over a relatively small issue is merely immature and ultimately counter-productive.
Mostly, I fear that bridges will be burned, and people will regret their rash impulses. Ironically, the Unban Satan thread is a case-history. Brian now acknowledges that he was rash, an idiot, someone who posted before he thought at times. The result? He has lost his privileges in this community, and he and we are poorer for that.
It’s been said before, by many others besides Scotti: don’t post in anger.
Being angry and responding rationally is one thing. Spraying buckshot indiscriminately ultimately accomplishes nothing.
And for those of you who enjoy the “vicarious thrills” from such threads, perhaps you’d be better off watching Jerry Springer or something.
I open few threads in the Pit, and contribute to still fewer. That’s not why I chose to become a member. I know peoples’ tastes vary, but the taste I’m getting here now is one of bitter bile, and that’s a shame, mostly because it really isn’t necessary.
And yet the thread which caused this all still is not locked. If the tenor of the Pit was a concern why not attack the issue directly?
On a different point- I agree without reservation. This is the best general interest message board going. I think it is due, in large part to the work of admins and mods like you. So thanks!!
In those threads I saw no more vitriol than you would see in an average, pit thread. (with the exception of the 72 pt. “cunt”, which muct be some sort of record for automatic losing of argument). The only difference is that it was two long timers going at it and it would inevitably divide the boards regulars allegiances.
I was one of the first in the DDG thread to ask people to take a step back. Not because of it was getting vitriolic, but because it was going to just end up with people digging in their positions even more.
It could have been different, but what ended up happening was a situation for every petty little disagreement and chip on shoulder to be dug up.
by halfway through the thread it devolved to pure pissyness or “think of the Children” posts.
Neither helped.
While it is cathartic for the populace to have a release (which is why the pit is so great, IMO) a massive out pouring like these two threads are the reverse. they just caused more damage.
The one attempt at a constructive criticism thread by Coldfire a few years ago got out of hand because some people got the misguided impression that the thread was for petty grievances, rather than a helping hand. Its a pity, because I often think alot of people could do with these threads.
anyway, I ramble.
there is a boiling point on the boards. sometimes it simmers over. sometimes it superheats and explodes.
After a little while, it dies back down, and everyone can make tea.
C’est la vie, I guarentee.
[sub] This post brought to you by Tree Hugging Hippy Crap inc.
*All Guarentees void in Tennessee. This is not a guarentee. [/sub]
There’s an even better variation on that, IMHO: close the original thread, with links to a mod-started continuation thread (e.g. an “Unban Satan, Part II” thread started by, say, John Corrado).
The original thread (and all its pages and pages of oogy flames) drops out of sight, the continuation almost always dies quickly as well, yet there’s no implication of the admin saying “We’re cutting off this conversation.”
I think Diane has a point: nobody has to come to the Pit. And even once here, nobody has to open every thread, and even then, you don’t have to read the whole thing, and you don’t have to post. Just like you don’t have to slow down when you pass a car wreck on the road. It’s taken me a while to learn it, but I’ve come to the startling realization that not every fight needs me on one side or the other. And not only that, but I’m just as happy not knowing about many of the fights.
Maybe it’s that I don’t recall the Cher song, but the thread title put Elvis Costello’s “What’s So Funny About Peace and Understanding?” in my head, which was fine with me.
Of course, Jonathan Chance replaced it with Tom Lehrer’s “National Brotherhood Week,” which ain’t bad either. So I’ve got no complaints at all about the soundtrack for this thread.
I don’t know that the problem is people pitting other people: rather, it’s people pitting other people and not being willing to see the other person’s point of view at some point. That’s just stupid, really.
In any event, those out for watching blood, there can be plenty of blood, just so long as people are able to mend wounds at some time in the future.
Perhaps, what Scotti meant in the thread, and what Lynn’s sticky making ideas (matron, the pills please) Could be summed up by a Celine Dion song title, “Think Twice”.
And for all those who are now going to have Ms Dion shouting “NO, NO, NO NO!” in thir heads, Your welcome
Let’s go back to the Elvis Costello song. Less nausea-inducing.
Scotticher, I applaud you. I too was getting tired of the Melodramatic Flamewars followed quickly by the Melodramatic Whining of the Participants. I participated in the infamous lee vs. Ukelele Ike’s comment about Disney thread, but my participation was limited to “What is the point of this?” and recounting the plotline of the thread (which then dragged on for two ugly pages more). The following “Unban Satan” and jarbabyj vs. Duck Duck Goose flamethrower battles I’ve stayed well away from, aside from reading the OP of jar’s deceptively-named hatefest. Good lord, people! Get over yourselves please!
In fact, why don’t we change the themesong of this thread/forum to OK Go’s “Get Over It”?
I hesitate to know what this law will be called. Is this the pit form of Godwin, now? Or does calling a mod a nazi still count? (and has anyone really called a mod a nazi not in jest?)
(as an aside, I think the hugs and happy-warm-fuzziness get spread a little thickly online, just like the anger does, and comes across as phony from time to time. And I’m talking about the group at large, not you)
