A plea to Trump supporters and conservatives in general

Please be alert for a dark element among Trump supporters – an element driven by bigotry and xenophobia. I hope it’s much less significant of an element than I worry it is, and I hope Trump supporters’ (and Trump himself) are right that this is barely more than a few assholes in their basements. But just in case, please be alert for these folks – they (white supremacists/nationalists and their ilk) have done by far the most harm to America of any group. If I’m right, they’re more than an insignificant fraction (how large I don’t know), and they will move forward with their disgusting agenda anyway they can.

But I hope my worries are unfounded.

I’m afraid you’re putting your trust in the fox to guard the hen house.

A counter-plea: to you, and other liberals.

Stop describing differences of opinion on substantive issues as racism, sexism, bigotry, or xenopohobia.

I favor Voter ID laws, because I believe them to be a legitimate exercise of state power and a valid method to help ensure voter confidence in the results of elections.

For holding this stance, I have been assailed on this very board as a racist and a bigot, a self-hating Hispanic, and a raft of other insults that are not accurate.

Perhaps, goes my plea, you can work to avoid that tendency should you discover it in yourself and speak up against it when you see it in your fellow liberals.

I will try. I don’t think I’ve ever done this, though (and we’ve had detailed conversations about voter ID).

Is my plea invalid?

Exactly. That’s why I laughed out loud when I saw the thread asking if the SDMB is a liberal echo chamber. ANYWHERE that does what you describe is a liberal echo chamber, by definition.

There’s a real tendency around here to vilify anyone who differs from the norm as any number of pejoratives- racist, sexist, bigoted, fascist, etc… when that’s not true at all.

For example, someone may be perfectly homophilic, and still think that the Supreme Court decision legalizing gay marriage was flawed. Not because of the content, but because they don’t agree with judicial activism or the logical stretches the SCOTUS made to reach their decision.

That doesn’t make a person homophobic or bigoted- it just means they didn’t agree with the decision on certain grounds.

I actually think that there were a whole lot more people who voted for Trump because they didn’t like Bill and Hillary Clinton and found them more personally odious than they found Trump, and figured that at least with Trump, all that stuff is out in the open, while the Clintons are perceived as having a history of being secretive and sleazy.

But around here, that gets these people called racist, fascist, sexist and bigoted, when those things probably had nothing to do with their decision.

No, it is valid. And Republicans are going to have to be the ones who take responsibility for repudiating violence, as the GOP did with the John Birch Society. And we (the GOP) are the ones who have to do it, partly because there are so many accusations of racism against us from the Left that it is hard to take them all seriously.

Can I make a plea in return? There has been a certain amount of condemnation of GOP supporters talking about “Second Amendment solutions” and targeting and things like that, because it is going to be interpreted as encouraging nutcases to engage in violence. If that condemnation is justified, ISTM that there is also a non-zero amount of rhetoric coming from the left that can be seen as equally encouraging of violence against Trump. Of course almost all of it is hot air, just as it is coming from the Right. But…

There was discussion about the danger of assassinations of Obama, back in the day, because he is black. Nothing like that happened (thank God). There are, I believe, probably as many dangerously unstable people enraged at Trump as there were dangerously unstable racists who wanted to kill our first black President.

Both sides need to call out their extreme fringe elements, and never make excuses for them. Because Trump is (God help us) the duly elected President of the United States. We need to deal with that. But we damn well better deal with it in a way that honors the Constitution of the greatest nation on earth. If we lose that, we lose everything.

It’s a cliché to say that the people have decided and the country must come together. But clichés are often true.

I’m not talking about saying “the Republicans tried to block everything Obama did so the Democrats are going to do the same” or “we aren’t going to vote to confirm anyone Trump nominates to the bench”. That’s just politics.

But, that having been said, you are correct. Islam is not our enemy. Muslims are not bad people. Blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics, are all equal before the law, and are entitled to the equal protection of the law. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Regards,
Shodan

In other words, all lives matter.

Thanks very much for this, and I will definitely try and take your plea onboard.

I am very sad and I want a hug.

Echoing Bricker’s comment, I would also observe that I haven’t seen anything Trump has said which I would regard as bigoted, misogynistic or the like. But this seems to be how these things are universally portrayed.

The more expansive your definition of these terms is, the harder it’s going to be to avoid finding them.

My plea isn’t about Trump – it’s about some element of his supporters (David Duke being most prominent among them). I don’t think you’ll argue that those folks have said bigoted things. The only disagreement is probably how significant these folks are among Trump’s supporters – I hope I’m wrong, and Trump is right, that these folks are utterly insignificant. My plea is for Trump supporters and conservatives to please be alert for these folks, just in case I’m not wrong.

Meh.

Speaking for myself I have pointed many times that the problem is that indeed the racist elements are tolerated **too **much.

Many of the reasonings you and **Bricker **are using were used for decades to defend Sheriff Joe Arpaio; yes, the ones making those excuses are more likely than not to not be racists. But again, it is a defense that ends up white washing the behavior of many in power that are racist.

The good news locally is that Arpaio was defeated because many Republicans in Arizona do know now how insane was to defend his vindictiveness and racial profiling that caused so many losses to the state by defending his ideology. It is not a coincidence too that both Senators including the reelected McCain continue to be against Trump and were also against Arpaio. The point here is that what **iiandyiiii **pleads is not really such an outstanding request, because even a red state can do it.

I don’t think we can do hugs in GD, and it would be inappropriate to grab you by the pussy.

How about if I shake your hand, hold it just a little longer than necessary while making eye contact with slight undertones of erotic tension, and then if it is ever mentioned again, we both laugh nervously and change the subject?

Regards,
Shodan

The issues of the voter ID thread aside, perhaps as a counter-counter-plea people could stop describing actual incidences of racism, sexism, bigotry, or xenophobia as “differences of opinion on substantive issues”.

Like the US election the Brexit vote brought out some of the nastier elements of society including a sizable swathe of anti-immigrant rhetoric. And when these things were pointed out the Remain campaign were accused of “crying racism” and trying to distract from the “real issues” of the campaign. But when Leave won there was a significant spike in actual hate crimes in the UK against Muslims, against blacks, against gays, and against immigrants. The people we said were bigots unsurprisingly turned out to be bigots.

And here we are again - Clinton’s description of a significant subset (but not the entirety) of Trump supporters are bigots was handwaved away despite ample evidence that it was true. And now they’ve been vindicated, what can we expect in the days to come? If I were a minority, I’d be very frightened right now.

It’s not all Trump supporters and certainly not all Republicans, but if we start from the assumption that accusations of bigotry are without merit and based on political stance a lot of very real problems will be swept under the rug.

I don’t understand this.

Why would “Trump supporters and conservatives” specifically need to be alert for these folks?

Trump got elected, OK. What else? Do you think he’s going to appoint David Duke to some sort of position?

True, it’s unfair to expect an entire subcultural cohort to take responsibility for weeding out extremist elements in its midst or risk having the entire cohort be considered sympathetic to the extremists’ views. :smiley:

I hope everyone is alert for these folks, but just as liberals are more likely to ignore or look past bad actors who agree with them on many/most issues, I think conservatives can be susceptible in the same way. So I’m asking you and other conservatives to be alert for folks that might agree with you on many conservative policy issues, but who are motivated by bigotry, whether appointed by Trump or supporters who decide to take matters into their own hands, in some way.

Perhaps I’m just looking for emotional reassurance that most conservatives are still my allies against white supremacism and white nationalism.

In any case, you can feel free to ignore this plea if you wish.

Sounds good to me. I may still hug you, though.

Duke ran for the US Senate seat in Louisiana. He garnered a whopping 3% of the vote.

Well, Joe Arpaio is available now…

Half a jest as one should not forget that Trump joined the racial profiler to the hip in order to win Arizona.

I don’t understand how you can say that. “Mexicans are rapists”, “Miss Piggy”, making fun of handicapped reporters, etc.? :confused: