Not this crap again.
High School, University, visit every year. Sorry to make you look a fool.
I happen to teach on courses about devaluation, demonisation and dehumanisation. Such traits are not limited by country nor by race or religion but are universal. Anti-Semitism is dreadful but does not stand alone. As part of the teaching I develop themes through the Shoah demonstrating how such procedures work, also using the British Empire, Apartheid South Africa and the USA before the Civil Rights Act and particularly before 1865 as models.
I respect and welcome people of Jewish, Arabic, African or West Indian descent, but understand clearly how all are severely and unconsciously discriminated against.
Your assumption that because I recognise such universal features of human weakness indicates that I am Anti-Semitic makes you look a fool.
Explaining does not imply excusing.
Yeah, there are two sides to this. One side wants to kill as many Israelis as possible and see the the Jewish state obliterated. The other side wants to survive, while it is surrounded by people who want the Israel obliterated. Yet, they go out of their way to minimize harm to civilians. Going as far as letting them know which buildings are going to get blown up by their superior weaponry. One side is guided by a religion that seeks peaceful coexistence, the other by barbaristic beliefs that every Israeli must be killed, and celebrates maximum deaths to civilians. Yup, there are two sides to this, alrighty.
Which is a way of saying that you dismiss the harm that Israel has done to the Palestinians over the last two generations.
So long as people like you cannot see that both sides are threatened and wounded and need healing, then the impasse will continue.
Actually the OP has the whole thing upside-down. It would be a brave Jew in Britain at present who would speak up to support the State of Israel defending itself.
Israel has the right of self-defense. If it is attacked aggressively it will defend itself aggressively, in exactly the same manner as its supremely hypocritical American and European critics would demand their countries were defended if rockets were raining down on their dumb asses. Israel however they expect to bend over and take it and ‘negotiate’ with maniacs whose only wish is to utterly destroy Israel.
Cet animal est très méchant. Quand on l’attaque il se défend.
As pointed out above the UK went through thirty years of random bombing by Irish Nationalists without once launching an airstrike on Dublin, or knocking down Catholic houses as punishment in retribution. God knows we trampled on civil liberties, but never used full scale military assaults in response.
LibDem MP forced to apologise for saying that if he were a Gaza Palestinian, he would probably launch rockets too. Such statements must be unsaid in public:
The Lib Dems say David Ward has given a “categorical apology” for his comments on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Mr Ward tweeted on Tuesday: “The big question is - if I lived in #Gaza would I fire a rocket? - probably yes.”
In a statement subsequently released by the Lib Dems, he said: “My comments were not in support of firing rockets into Israel. If they gave the opposite impression, I apologise.”
A Lib Dem spokesman had said the party “utterly condemned” the MP’s tweet.
The spokesman later added: “In light of this apology, the party and the whips will decide in due course if further disciplinary action should be taken.”
And the Israelis tend to do the same with random terrorist acts (at least they don’t usually invade over them). Now, let’s imagine a scenario where over the course of a few weeks the Irish launch 3,000+ rockets at England. Your contention is that the noble British wouldn’t have escalated in response? Really?
Like (forcibly) removing Israeli settlers from Gaza and leaving there intact a wonderful infrastructure (3000 greenhouses) on which the Palestinians could have built, but which they chose to dismantle/vandalize almost immediately. Is that the type of harm you mean?
Harm? If you are honestly worried about harm done to the Palestinians, you need look no further than Hamas - an organization that as recently as last week repudiated an Egyptian-organized ceasefire and thus bears responsibility for the Palestinian casualties that followed. Of course, anyone who has followed Hamas’s tactics over the years would not have been surprised. The Israeli Defence Minister neatly encapsulated things when he said, “Hamas uses its citizens to defend its weapons; Israel uses its weapons to defend its citizens.”
By the way, when Gaza was controlled by Egypt (as it was before 1967), did the Palestinians there see the Egyptians as oppressors, as appropriate targets for bombs, rockets, or even an unceasing media campaign? Why not?
And, please, stop with your disingenuous analogy that would equate random acts of IRA terrorism with rocket attacks launched on a near-daily basis by representatives of an elected government (Hamas).
Please. A flu scale military assault by Israel could kill thousands of Palestinians in a few hours. Their strike are very target, designed to take out rocket launching locations. The fact that Hamas intentionally locates them in schools and hospitals makes them the barbarians, not the Israelis.
But tell me, what would you do if a neighbor who is sworn to obliterate you decides to launch missiles onto you?
The ones who love their own children more than they hate the other side.
Regards,
Shodan
Indeed; and I accept that. But it should always be borne in mind that the Palestinian are a semitic people, and share a genetic heritage with the Israelis; their differences are historical and cultural.
A small portion of the Palestinians killed were killed in Schools. Most were killed in houses or in the open streets. Most of the strikes have been to take out Hamas leaders or supporters houses as ‘rocket launching sites’ can be set up anywhere- they are not permanent installations.
I suppose we get a less biased reportage here and daily we have seen israeli shellfire destroying row after row of Palestinian housing and no news is complete without another demolition of large domestic buildings using targeted rockets.
As we have access here to British, European, Middle Eastern and US News feeds, it is fascinating to see the gradual dilution of the horror of the coverage from AL Jazeera through Europe, the UK and then the USA, the last of which never sees the really offensive news because of conscious or unconscious censorship.
Current score-
Israeli citizens killed by rockets 1
Palestinian citizens killed by retaliatory military action- over 1000!
Good for you.
Do you believe that it’s anti-Semitic to claim that British Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the UK.
I never called you anti-Semitic and don’t think you are.
I merely noted that trying to excuse anti-Semitism and anti-Muslim bigotry by claiming that it is due to the “clannishness” of Jews seems to buy into classic anti-Semitic tropes.
Perhaps you could explain exactly how British Jews are “clannish” and how their “clannishness” leads to British anti-Semitism in ways that it doesn’t in the US.
I do not consider in anti-Semitic to believe that many Jewish Brits have a strong allegiance to Israel. I do not consider it anti-Islam that I suspect that many Moslems have a strong allegiance to Pakistan, Somalia or elsewhere. I do not consider it Catholic to suspect that many Roman Catholics have a strong allegiance to the Vatican. I am extremely tolerant in this matter having a very limited allegiance to the UK myself, and understanding how it is possible to feel allegiance to more than one place and nation.
I did not specify Jewish 'clannishness in any way.
My full quote was:
“Not at all- bigotry against Roman Catholics is a problem in the UK, especially in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And for the same reasons as against Jews and People of Islam- clannishness and difference- a universal human reaction.”
So clannishness as a universal property of outsiders everywhere- Roman Catholics, Jews and Moslems.
Here’s a question for you, how many innocent Palestinians would have been killed by Israeli rockets if the number of rockets launched into Israel was zero?
Also, I think you might have missed this one:
[QUOTE=magellan01]
But tell me, what would you do if a neighbor who is sworn to obliterate you decides to launch missiles onto you?
[/QUOTE]
Also ignores the many air strikes in the days leading up to the start of the rocket attacks.
So why exactly are Catholics and Jews considered “outsiders” in the UK?
That’s not how they’re viewed in the US or Canada.
Respectfully, the fact that Jews and Catholics are considered “outsiders” in the UK says vastly more about the UK than it does about Jews or Catholics.