There’s a Top Ten Jews list now*? Who knew?
I never heard of him, but that’s probably because I was never much for listening to Casey Kasem.
I’m gonna be really pissed if Scarlett Johanssen isn’t on the list.
If an informed Brit was asked to identify prominent Jews, he would be high on the list having been an MP for as long as I can remember.
Which makes your comment uninformed and a little silly.
Apparently the tweets originated in Israel.
I’m sorry to say that Israelis on the internet behave just like everyone else on the internet.
Okay, so you’ve demonstrated that thirteen year old Israelis lack sophisticated and proportionate understanding of international politics. Can you demonstrate any larger significance to this fact? Remember, you’re talking about a demographic that regularly issues death threats to people for preferring Justin Bieber.
Beautifully minimised.
I’m surprised it took so long to get a poster who’d argue that there’s nothing anti-Semitic about claiming that British Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the UK.
I wonder if we’ll next hear defenses for the British respondents who insisted that Jews have “too much power” in business and “too much power” in “international financial markets.”
Sorry, but you’re being silly.
I’m reminded of Alan Dershowitz trying to prove how violently anti-Semitic most anti-Israel protesters are by showing e-mails and letters he got or leaders of the ADL showing various anti-Semitic tweets in response to statements in support of Israel.
Internet trolls are the save everywhere.
Okay, make your case. Explain to me why I should care what adolescent girls think about what a pop star said about something in the news.
Because it works against a brave, wise, reasonable debate in which we call Israelis Nazis.
Regards,
Shodan
I’m still waiting for an explanation from Pjen as to how British Jews are known for their “clannishness”.
It’s rather lazy for a OP to not provide a synopsis and more of his own opinion.
It was on David Letterman, that’s why: “Top Ten Jews”. 
Many groups who settle in another country, family ties can last generations. They can choose to live in certain areas close together to be with family. They can choose to wear distinctive clothing. They can choose to set up support and charity groups for their own people. They can choose to associate largely with their own people.
This behaviour is clannish- a close association with culturally similar people.
In the UK many such groups do this. Most obvious are Pakistani heritage and Somali heritage Moslems and more recently Polish Catholics. Jews are no different to any other incoming group and many do congregate in certain areas of cities (changing over the generations) and exhibit clannish behaviour, as do most incomers.
It is strange how you picked out Jews from the original discussion:
You published a poll by a Jewish organisation on the treatment of Jews in Europe. It did not look at the general issue of treatment of minorities.
I replied:
I would like to see a similar poll about Islam in the UK. There is certainly a high level of feeling that many maintain an allegiance to their mother or grandmother country, that the have increasing influence in finance and the professions, and they talk too much about the historical and current suppression of Islam.
“Perhaps what we are seeing is a general trend that sees outsiders who maintain their cultural differences as somewhat suspect, especially if they are doing well financially and socially!”
You replied:
Hmm… that’s dangerously close to apologizing for anti-Semitism. Exactly how do British Jews “maintain their cultural differences” in ways that say British Catholics don’t.
Thus erecting a straw man- my point had always been that discrimination is universal against outgroups. You introduced its specificity to Jews and then suggested that I had done so.
I replied:
Not at all- bigotry against Roman Catholics is a problem in the UK, especially in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And for the same reasons as against Jews and People of Islam- clannishness and difference- a universal human reaction.
again referring to clannishness as a universal reaction
Then you said:
Since you seem so concerned about “clannishness”* and seem to argue that it’s perfectly fine to distrust and dislike those who hold onto “their cultural differences”,
erecting another Straw Man- I OBSERVED that this was normative human behaviour (there is much research to prove such devaluation of outgroups) I did not APPROVE of it.
I pointed out your continuing error:
I happen to teach on courses about devaluation, demonisation and dehumanisation. Such traits are not limited by country nor by race or religion but are universal. Anti-Semitism is dreadful but does not stand alone. As part of the teaching I develop themes through the Shoah demonstrating how such procedures work, also using the British Empire, Apartheid South Africa and the USA before the Civil Rights Act and particularly before 1865 as models.
I respect and welcome people of Jewish, Arabic, African or West Indian descent, but understand clearly how all are severely and unconsciously discriminated against.
Your assumption that because I recognise such universal features of human weakness indicates that I am Anti-Semitic makes you look a fool.
Explaining does not imply excusing.
You then replied:
I never called you anti-Semitic and don’t think you are.
I merely noted that trying to excuse anti-Semitism and anti-Muslim bigotry by claiming that it is due to the “clannishness” of Jews seems to buy into classic anti-Semitic tropes.
erecting further straw man arguments.
I pointed this out- that I was talking of devaluation in general (the only person specifying the argument applying only to Jews is YOU!)
I do not consider in anti-Semitic to believe that many Jewish Brits have a strong allegiance to Israel. I do not consider it anti-Islam that I suspect that many Moslems have a strong allegiance to Pakistan, Somalia or elsewhere. I do not consider it Catholic to suspect that many Roman Catholics have a strong allegiance to the Vatican. I am extremely tolerant in this matter having a very limited allegiance to the UK myself, and understanding how it is possible to feel allegiance to more than one place and nation.
I did not specify Jewish 'clannishness in any way.
My full quote was:
“Not at all- bigotry against Roman Catholics is a problem in the UK, especially in Scotland and Northern Ireland. And for the same reasons as against Jews and People of Islam- clannishness and difference- a universal human reaction.”
So clannishness as a universal property of outsiders everywhere- Roman Catholics, Jews and Moslems.
You then responded by blatantly false statements about the treatment of Catholics and Jews in the US:
So why exactly are Catholics and Jews considered “outsiders” in the UK?
That’s not how they’re viewed in the US or Canada.
Respectfully, the fact that Jews and Catholics are considered “outsiders” in the UK says vastly more about the UK than it does about Jews or Catholics.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
Forgetting the Kennedy fears about a Catholic as President and
Forgive Wikipedia Link:
A 2007 survey by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) concluded that 15% of Americans hold antisemitic views, which was in-line with the average of the previous ten years, but a decline from the 29% of the early sixties. The survey concluded that education was a strong predictor, “with most educated Americans being remarkably free of prejudicial views.” The belief that Jews have too much power was considered a common antisemitic view by the ADL. Other views indicating antisemitism, according to the survey, include the view that Jews are more loyal to Israel than America, and that they are responsible for the death of Jesus of Nazareth. The survey found that antisemitic Americans are likely to be intolerant generally, e.g. regarding immigration and free-speech. The 2007 survey also found that 29% of foreign-born Hispanics and 32% of African-Americans hold strong antisemitic beliefs, three times more than the 10% for whites.[157]
A 2009 study published in Boston Review found that nearly 25% of non-Jewish Americans blamed Jews for the financial crisis of 2008–2009, with a higher percentage among Democrats than Republicans.[158]
In August 2012, the California state assembly approved a non-binding resolution that “encourages university leaders to combat a wide array of anti-Jewish and anti-Israel actions,” although the resolution “is purely symbolic and does not carry policy implications.”[159]
You then posted:
I’m surprised it took so long to get a poster who’d argue that there’s nothing anti-Semitic about claiming that British Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the UK.
I wonder if we’ll next hear defenses for the British respondents who insisted that Jews have “too much power” in business and “too much power” in “international financial markets.”
which is a bit embarrassing considering the above Wikipedia article about the same anti-Semitic views in the USA.
and then you post:
I’m still waiting for an explanation from Pjen as to how British Jews are known for their “clannishness”.
Straw man again. I have never said the Jews qua Jews are clannish. I have said that all out groups tend to be.
This can be clearly seen from the above- it has been you making the running pleading a special case for Jews not being seen as clannish, when I have never said that they are any more clannish than any other out group.
I will note once again that Pjen refuses to explain exactly how British Jews are more “clannish” than American Jews.
The fact that he is still unable to do so despite claiming to be a university professor is quite telling.
I have never said that.
Cite please for where I made that claim that UK Jews were more clannish than US Jews rather than that you manufactured it. No such statement exists.
I never claimed to be a University Professor- another Straw man construction of yours. No such statement exists.
Cite for where I said I was a University Professor.
Errr… You claimed that the reason that 48% of all British citizens were more loyal to Israel than the UK was because of their “clannishness”.
Are you denying this?
Or do you claim that 50% of all American citizens have such an attitude regarding American Jews.
Also, IIRC , you never said if you thought it was anti-Semitic to think that “British are more loyal to Israel than the UK”.
I think the answer is “Duh, yes!”
Do you disagree?
If so, please explain?
[QUOTE]
Cite for where I said I was a University Professor.[/QUOTE
Apologies. You went into detail in the courses you taught and so assumed you meant at a university?
Do you teach at a high school instead?
BTW, not meant as an insult. My mother taught high school.
Yes. I never made that claim. It is your straw man.
Please do the decent thing and provide cites. I have made it easy for you by recording the whole exchange. Nowhere did I claim what you say.
So now you are accusing me of ‘never saying’ something.
Cite please for what I actually said.
If you are making accusations of this nature, you need to provide cites.
Answered above, not that it is any of your business
I did not say I was a University Professor- that was your Straw Man
I did not say I taught at University- That was your Straw Man
I did actually teach courses at two UK Universities on a regular basis, taught at college level for Nursing and taught the subject to groups of staff at various hospitals as a guest speaker.
Not that it is any of your business.