A question about pride.

In My Humble Opinion
1

Humm, how to word this question - I’m gonna just throw this out there and hopefully you folks will be able to slog through it and offer some insight to me - if clarity is needed, please ask!

As I was riding the bus home from work today a woman and small child got on. She was well dressed, as was the child. She told the driver she was going to find $$ to pay for the trip after she sat down. She then had a screaming fit at the child about something he’d put in his mouth. At the next stop, the driver asked if she was going to pay. The woman, without checking her purse or pockets said “I don’t have any money - we’ll have to get off.” She said this with almost a vicious tone - as though it was the drivers fault she didn’t have money, or that his employers mandated that he had to charge people for their ride. The woman sat for another minute while the driver looked at her and then grabbed the child and hauled him off the bus. As she was off the driver said “Why didn’t you just ask me?” She started to yell at him and tried to get back on the bus. He said “Forget it.”, closed the door in her face and drove off. (Can’t say as I blame him too much - I don’t particularly like to be yelled at either.) I saw the woman at the side of the bus as we were pulling away and she was FURIOUS. Really, really pissed off.

As I watched this exchange I was wondering to myself "Why DIDN’T she just ask the driver for a free trip. I see people do it all the time - “Sorry, I forgot my pass.” “I don’t have any $$ but I’ll pay twice next time, etc.” I’ve never once seen a driver refuse when a person has asked - I’m sure there are drivers who do - I’ve just never seen one.

Finally, I settled on my answer - pride. It was pride that prevented the woman from asking for a free trip for her and her son. This is where my confusion starts.

WARNING, WARNING ASSUMPTIONS TO FOLLOW

I had assumed from her appearance that the woman was fairly well heeled - however, this may not be the case. So, assuming that the woman was dirt poor, and really had no $$ to get her and her child to where they were going, why wouldn’t she just as for the free trip?

I’m asking this from the unusual and enviable position of not ever having to worry about $$ - not that I’m independantly wealthy and never have to work - I just have a unique set of circumstances that mean short of Canada going bankrupt, I don’t have money as a major worry in my life.

Were I in a no cash situation I would just say “Sorry - I have no cash - can I catch you twice next time?” I have done this in a parking situation when the booth only took cash and I hadn’t planed for that so only had credit/debit - the booth guy was happy to take my name and phone # and have me pay next time.

So - any thoughts here? Assuming the woman was very poor as opposed to just being a scammer who was caught in her scam, why wouldn’t she just ask?

anyone have any thoughts? questions? similar stories? I was really intrigued by the whole thing and would appreciate any insight anyone could offer.

2

So hard to know and so many possibilities. Perhaps she was poor but believed people who dressed nicely get preferential treatment just because they appear to have money…and everyone knows, those with money get a “free ride”. Right commuters?

3

Humm - I hadn’t thought of that - perhaps she thought that the driver would just ignore or forget that she hadn’t paid because she was well dressed.

4

Up til a month or so ago I didn’t know about free bus rides. Silly I know. I have a friend who’s a bus driver and she says she gives it away all the time.

But not nearly as often to well-heeled riders (on the assumption they’ve got the means). Could be the passenger didn’t even know it was a possibility. If she went nuts at her kid there was probably something else going on–maybe they were on their way someplace? Job interview & she had to bring her kid? I dunno.

5

Well she was certainly stressed - but I sort of got the impression that the whole “screaming, item in the mouth” thing was supposed to be a distraction. She also wasn’t dressed in an interview or business fashion - she was very casual but big ticket items.

Even if it was a scam, it seemed like a hulluva lot of work for a $2 bus ride which she probably could have gotten free if she’d just asked.

I thought that she acted like she shouldn’t HAVE to ask - the driver should have just offered.

6

She may have been embarassed. I’ve noticed some people tend to get really angry when they’re embarassed by something. Not sure why. Maybe it’s some kind of defense mechanism.

7

I’m sure she was - I guess I just don’t understand why.

8

It would never have occured to me to ask for a free ride. I either pay for what I get or don’t get what I don’t pay for. Entitlement baffles me, where others yield it like a surgeon does a scalpel. The woman may have been playing a game so advanced the driver didn’t even know he was a participant.

9

Well, he did stop the bus and stare at her expectantly, and he did drive off and leave her on the side of the road, so if there was a game, I’m pretty sure he was in on it. :slight_smile:

I dunno - if I had lost my wallet or something, and was unable to get ahold of alternative transportation for some reason, I would ask to pay later without hesitation. I would pay later, of course.

10

The reason for embarassment is that it is uncomfortable to be pitied, to have people feel sorry for you. People feeling sorry for you makes you feel powerless and inferior, subject to the whims of the people in the superior position. It makes you feel as if you are making yourself vunerable to someone who may have mercy on you or who may belittle and humiliate you and you have no real control over which it will be–they get to decide and you have to accept, and worse, be grateful.

This isn’t entirely logical, I know. But all the intensely prideful people I have talked with seem to have this sort of reaction to the thought of losing their dignity.

11

So what do you suppose causes the intense pridefulness?

Honestly, I almost never become embarassed, and it wouldn’t even occur to me that the driver/passengers would pity me - I would just assume that they assumed I’d lost my wallet, misjudged my budget or some other kookie thing that everybody does once and a while. No?

12

But you would assume this because it would be true for you. If what was true for you is that you didn’t have the money for a bus ride becuase you honest to god didn’t have it in the whole world and there wasn’t a single soul in the world that cared enough about you to loan you the two bucks, well, then, on some level you’d assume that everyone would see that truth about the barren suckiness of your life written across your face, and you’d cringe at the thought of them looking down at you. As far as what people actually do assume, well, it probably depends under what circumstances THEY would each individually ask for a free ride. We all tend to assume that other people are like us.

Also, remember that if you ask the bus driver for a free ride and he turns you down, well, you have options. This strange man that you don’t know from Adam doesn’t suddenly have the power to ruin your life, to make it so you can’t get to the job you need to make the paycheck that you’ve already earmarked every penny of for rent and food. If he should decide to say something scathing and mean to you and order you off the bus in front of everyone, you get off and call a friend. No big deal. When you don’t have any other options, humbleing yourself makes you feel so vunerable to the whims of an indifferent world, where the BEST you can hope for is that people will feel sorry for poor pitiful you.

13

I have to say I could not bring myself to ask for a free ride but then I wouldn’t have attempted to board a bus in the first place if I didn’t have the money.

If I did board a bus not realising I didn’t have the fare, I would apologise to the driver and scuttle off the bus, feeling very embarrassed. It would not occur to me to ask for a free ride. Yes it’s pride.

14

Of course - I totally recognize that my circumstances are radically different than most other peoples.

It just seemed that the woman’s reaction, and actions were not really serving her all that well. Of any circumstances to be in to engage in a game of pridefullness, a lone woman travelling by bus with a small child just doesn’t seem like one. Where I am is a very spread out city - from where we were it would have been a longish walk for a woman - a very long walk for a woman with a child.

I guess I’m wondering to what lengths people will go to keep their pride intact. jastu - if it wasn’t just you travelling - if you had a small child with you would you still refuse to ask for assistance, or would you swallow your pride and ask for a favour?

15

Certain kinds of pride rarely serve anybody well. Many people just don’t get tested to the point of honing down pride to self-respect. Nobody knows where they’ll draw those lines until forcibly confronted with them.

It totally sucks to feel powerless. Adversity might build character but the process ain’t always pretty. Books and movies usually condense it down to “aha!” moments but usually it consists of slow, excruciating grinding away. It’s remarkably humiliating–not to mention bewildering–to be exhausted just coping with bare minimums. Like just bus fare…keeping clothes, self and home clean, finding work, finding medical care, etc. etc. etc.

I’m torn on exactly where desperation becomes a test of character. Lord knows I’ve seen plenty of technicolor meltdowns, for far less reason than your prideful, angry lady on the bus. Same syndrome, probably, with lines drawn different places, for different reasons. Danged if I know where the cutoff line for self indulgence sits, though it’s oddly more obvious for the poor: shuffling items in a busy grocery checkout line for food stamps, etc. I’m just not sure it’s qualitatively all that different from a yuppie pitching hissy fits over frills. Bad behavior, both. The root causes are just worlds apart, not to mention the skewed social credibility granted each.

I’d guess the woman was exhausted, humiliated and riding on her last nerve. She was wrong to loose her frustration on the bus driver. Understandable, but still wrong. People have to grow into being stressed beyond their limits.

16

Actually I was being facetious. I believe that when people board a bus they know that a fare is due. If they do not discuss the lack of money with the driver on entry, I think there is a scam in progress. Kudos to the driver who saw it for what it was. Perhaps the attribute we should be discussing is not pride, but arrogance.

17

Can you imagine any situation where you might need, and ask for a free ride? If you were late for an important appointment and got on a bus then suddenly realized you had no cash or bus pass, wouldn’t you ask the driver to cut you some slack? I think most folks in that situation would.

I don’t think that asking to get a ride free under those conditions and then paying it back another time is the same as feeling entitled to get a free ride. Or maybe I don’t understand what you meant by entitlement.

18

It would depend on the circumstances. If I was intending to go somewhere, I would just return home. If I was trying to get home and had absolutely no other way of getting there, I would quietly approach the driver, explain the situation and ask if I could give my name and address and owe the fare. I would feel extremely embarrassed and uncomfortable for the duration of the ride home.

I really have a hard time asking for any type of help, whether it be financial or physical. I know too many people who try and scam their way through life that I would hate to be mistaken for one of them.

19

I’m reminded of this quote:

“When you got right down to the bottom of the ladder the rungs were very close together and, oh my, weren’t the women careful about them. In their own way, they were as haughty as any duchess. You might not have much, but you could have Standards. Clothes might be cheap and old but at least they could be scrubbed. There might be nothing behind the front door worth stealing but at least the doorstep could be clean enough to eat your dinner off, if you could’ve afforded dinner.”
–Terry Pratchett, Night Watch

20

I don’t have much to add except to say that I experienced this, too.

I worked as a cashier once and had quite a few customers that used food stamps.
It seemed that people fell in one of three categories:
a)“I use food stamps and it’s not a big deal”
b) “I use food stamps and hate that fact”
and
c)“I use food stamps and really hate that fact and am really really going to let you know it”

Sometimes, and most assuredly not all the time, we had people that were so angry (bitter?) at the fact that they used food stamps that they took it out on me. It was as if I somehow ‘owed’ them, that as you mentioned, it was my fault.

I think that a lot of those people use their behavior, in a weird way, to get attention.