Confidence and outgoingness are really underrated characteristics. Anyone possessing one or both has all the tools they need to find themselves a good mate. Being intruding and outgoing can sometimes be a blurry line, but common sense should dictate what side your on. Suppose you have some friends going out one night…
Inviting yourself along = Bad
Asking if you can tag along = good
Now because you asked cool, they let you go, and lo and behold you end up meeting someone that night by random chance who happened to be in the same place. If you hadn’t been “intrusive”, you would have stayed home and never met that person. As the old mantra goes, “Fortune favors the bold”. Also remember that you often go through several people before you get that special someone. The more you go out and meet people, the faster you’ll get dating experience and burn through the bad apples till you get to the good one. Life doesn’t come to you, you must go out and bend it to your will. Good luck!
Now, when you say this, especially the last sentence.
Have you always been this way? Or have you built walls to keep from caring about or to stop caring about others? If you’ve always been this way, and this is truly how you feel, that sounds like some kind of antisocial personality disorder or mental illness.
I think what he was saying is that it’s easy to say you’re only 21, and you’ve got forever. While I don’t get insulted by it, I’ve heard things like this before. And it’s kinda confusing, not so much insulting, but still a drag to hear. If I had a nickel for everytime an older person has said, “Man if I was still your age…I’d be doing [sexual act], while snorting [drug of choice], with [x number of young lesbians]”. Yes old man, but you’re not me. You may have had the social skills when you were my age, but YOU’RE NOT ME. I was never good at it, so get off my back.
I was simply poking fun at HPL’s sentence structure in his first reply to me.
I’m not saying that Nilor should be out doing anything. When I was 21 I was pretty sure how my life was going to go. Guess what? I was wrong. So is Nilor.
My last bit of advice for Nilor, get some therapy. Talking, drug, surgical? What ever works for you. If you try something and it doesn’t work, then try again. If you werent’ unhappy about how you live your life you wouldn’t be posting it here.
This be a long one…I split it up into two parts, the first contains my responses to specific posts, the second…well, it’s whatever my first and second posts were.
I know…I know, but, damnit, that doesn’t make the choice any easier.
I think that I was just frustrated with not knowing, or not having, the answer. Do I kill the part of me which wants this? So far, I’ve been hesitant to do so…probably out of fear, for it certainly seems like a one way street. Or do I nurture it, allow it to grow, perhaps restoring something which is lacking…but if I do, then I’m letting someone else…someone with a face…know something about me. (as an off point, why do I want to call it lacking?) Is that good? Is that bad? Pointless questions to be asking here, I know.
I do not know, having never had one…how would I know if I want it or not? Of course, that leads to a bit of a catch-22, for if I don’t want something, then I’m not likely to go out of my way to do it…but yet, on some level, I do want it.
And if I built the walls then everythin’ is fine an’ dandy?
In all honesty though, I don’t know. I do know I once felt sad when I lost friends, or pets…not anymore. Hell, I find natural disasters funny, not that I’d wish it on anyone, but…
I agree, I don’t find myself intriguing, so there’s little hope that anyone else could. Then again, I don’t find much intriguing. I spend my time, for the most part, bored.
Since many replies seem to have the same theme -why am I posting here- I think I’ll take a moment to address them…'tis a good question!
I don’t know exactly why I started this thread, or why I’m posting here…not sure what I expected, since I already know the answers to the questions: No, I should not crush emotion, yes, I should break down some of the walls, if possible, and yes, there is still hope for me(if I change).
But yet…I’m not satisfied with those answers. It certainly makes sense to crush all emotions, no happiness, no fear, no sadness, no pain, no anger. Why would I want to experience loss, betrayal, or anger? Are the opposite emotions really that great? Do they make it worth the inevitable loss? In the past, as I mentioned, my answer was no. But now I’m having doubts; should I crush them?
Bah, that didn’t clear up much, did it? shrug I suppose it should just be written off as random musings and rhetorical questions. Maybe the reason I’m having such difficulty developing a question is that there isn’t a question. Perhaps I just needed to talk about it in a situation where I can be certain it won’t come back to haunt me.
Nilor, I do sympathize with you. When I was 21, I felt much the same. I thought I was too antisocial, too ugly, and too damned weird for people to be around me. That was about 20 years ago and it’s only been during the past 5 or 6 years that I’ve come to realize people actually like my company and want to be around me. I figured I’d never love or be loved and, with a few exceptions, was pretty much friendless.
When I was in my mid-20’s, a friend told me about a party that weekend. Like you, I didn’t want to intrude and assumed I wouldn’t be welcomed. Perhaps you can imagine my surprise when on Monday that friend asked me where I was and told me he missed me. It was a great party and he and the other folks at it really were wondering where I was. I was even more surprised a few days later, this man who I thought was just a good friend told me he’d been in love with me since we met three years earlier. (I am a straight female.) Once I processed that information, and it did take a few days, I realized I’d been in love with him for some time and I nearly married him.
Back in early 2000, I attended a local science fiction convention. As the afternoon wore on, I wound up talking with a science fiction writer and his best friend. We were getting close to the dinner break, and dinner plans were starting to be discussed. I was getting ready to make my standard excuses and leave as they discussed where to go when one of them said to me, “Whose car are you going in?” I’ve told them since that, if they’d asked any other question, I would have backed off. The writer told me later that they knew. That’s why they went on to ask that question instead of some other. That evening turned out to be one of the best of my life, and the science fiction writer is one of my closest friends. In fact, he stayed with me when his wife divorced him and was over last night doing my laundry and his.
Later that year, the writer and his friend had convinced me to go to a Mensa Regional Gathering. I didn’t expect to have a good time or fit in, but I went because I had nothing better to do. My plan was to stay a polite 3 hours and leave. I left 3 days later (it was held over Labor Day weekend). I went to another one in a different city some months later and I was stunned to see people coming up to me and saying, “It’s great to see you! We missed you!” Needless to say, I’m now a member of and advocate supporter of Mensa, as well as an unabashed geek.
One more story and I’ll stop, I promise. You see there’s a fellow I know in Mensa. He’s about a year and a half older than I am, skinny, a little on the short side, with thick glasses. He’s quite quiet and shy and he doesn’t think he’s attractive to women. Like me, he’d come to the conclusion that he’d never be in a relationship with someone. He figured, I think, that he was too shy, too nerdy, and too unattractive for a woman to be interested in him. I started noticing him about two years ago. After several months, I gave him my phone number. He called his sister to ask her why I did so. She told him it was because I wanted him to ask me out. She was right. Now, he and I are two 40-something year old geeks who are madly, completely, saccharinely in love with each other. (We do try to keep the saccharine levels down in public, but that poor writer has to put up with me occaisionally gushing about how wonderful he is! :eek: )
My point is there’s hope, lad, I promise, and the very people you think you’re intruding on may be the ones wondering why they don’t see more of you. It takes a while to adjust your mindset – just a couple of weeks ago, I was surprised to realize my coworkers actually like me – but it can happen and it’s worth it. Yes, you will get hurt and burned sometimes. Two weeks before I went to that Mensa RG, I’d been burned by people in the SCA whom I thought were friends; that’s one reason why I’m no longer active in the SCA. On the other hand, as I found out a few years ago, there are a bunch of interesting people out there wondering where the likes of you are. There might even be a girl or two among them and trust me, love (and sex!) are all they’re cracked up to be, at least in my experience!
I met the man I love dearly in Mensa, but I’m asking you to be smarter than me. Don’t wait until you’re in your 30’s or 40’s. I’d bet that you’re more attractive than you’re giving yourself credit for. Come and join us, whoever “us” happens to be!
At risk of sounding like I don’t appreciate the rest of your post:
I figure “my looks” warrant a response: I’m not ugly, perhaps not strikingly hansom, but certainly not ugly. I’m also not even close to overweight. (150ish an’ 5’ goin’ on 6’)
I hope that my looks aren’t better than I think
Sounds like fear to me. Just remember, if you risk nothing you get nothing.
When you stretch yourself emotionally in one direction you stretch in the opposite direction as well. What that means is that, in my experience, people who have suffered the depths of tragedy can experience heights of joy greater than what they have ever experienced before. If you try to suppress your emotions it works in both directions. You can’t block the bad ones without also blocking the good ones. Numb is just numb.
Do you really want to spend the next 60-70 years of your life trying not to feel anything? Talk about boring!
Yup, I would go with the fear diagnosis as well. You’d be the best judge, of course, Nilor. What is motivating you to not want to interact with other human beings - fear, or are you simply not interested? There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to socialize with other people, as long as you avoid contact by choice, not because you are afraid of socializing. Suppressing all emotion, however, is not particularly normal, and you might want to look into where that is coming from. My armchair psychologist guess is fear of getting hurt, fear of wanting things and being disappointed, and/or fear of rejection.
Nilor, what do you like to do? When you’re not bored, what are you doing?
I went through a period of about 4 years where I cut off contact with most people except my immediate family, and even that was minimal.
I said the same things you have, especially this one:
and this:
But I’ve learned that you can’t be a human being in a vacuum. I’m all for rugged individualism, but in some ways you need other people to define you.
The first thing I did that helped me come out of it was to volunteer. Your posts are filled with “I” statements, reflections on your personal angsts and agonies. You may be depressed, and depression is a selfish disease. Is there a good dr or therapist you can talk to about it?
If you can find a childhood literacy program (or even a humane society if people are too much right now) it really helps to care about something other than yourself. It also makes you feel valuable and needed, and gives you a chance to meet people without the social pressure of “what do I say”. And you won’t have so much time to mope.
I am saying this in all kindness and understanding: the world needs more self-aware people like you, but there is a difference between pondering existential questions and wallowing in them.
Unfortunatly, never…It would be too clear of a link to who I am in real life, and what I’ve posted provides far more information than I’d ever want someone finding out. While I realize that SDMB is not in the buisness of giving out information, if I’m ever accused of a crime this is not the kind of thing I want to have linked back to me.
Ah, like one unable to stop picking at a scab, I return to this thread…This time, however, in better spirits than my other posts. Here are my thoughts, in no particular order:
<hijack>
I have a feeling that my initial post and sour mood thereafter was prompted by the fact that one of (read: only) friends is having a wedding soon and they have not told me when it is, nor (obviously) invited me. I think I’m probably placing too much weight on the friendship, and perhaps they don’t realize how I feel, or maybe they don’t consider me a close friend. In many ways, I would describe it as the last connection I have (stupidly?) allowed to exist.
</hijack>
<hijack2>
Now I have need of a sanity check…this is more than I would reveal in person, but is it to the point where I should be concerned about it, or just my paranoid nature kicking in?
</hijack2>
Many of the posts here helped bring me out of that mood, and I thank you. I cannot honestly say that I have decided to make any changes yet, but the longing I felt before has retreated back into the depths where it lives.
Pretending I’m not bored…or, to put it another way, playing computer games.
If you don’t mind my asking, what made you change your mind?
Moneygrubbers, all of 'em! They have a vested interest in not solving problems, so as to keep you paying… no offense to any doctors or therapists who read this
I realize this, and that’s why I listed happiness first. If this line is continued it would probably be more appropriate in GD…
Actually, I used to believe this. Then, when I was 27, I wound up flat on my back in a mental hospital, nearly catatonic with clinical depression. Moneygrubbers or no, I could no longer deny needing one. The first therapist I had, I admit, was a quack. However, the three others I’ve seen have been excellent. The second one I saw, after I’d changed jobs and insurance plans, provided me with free medications because he knew money was tight. I saw the second one at a free clinic because I’d been laid off from the new job and couldn’t affort therapy, even though I desperately needed it. I saw the third one for a couple of years a few years ago. She cut her fees when I was laid off and had no health insurance, and we ended the therapy when we both figured I had sorted out the worst of things and was capable of dealing with the world. A good therapist isn’t always easy to find, but I wouldn’t be as happy as I am and my life wouldn’t be as good as it is without their help.
Oh dear… Nilor, you remind me of myself so much it scares me…
Alright, before i say what i want to, i would like to first say that i agree with much of what has been said here, and i’m not disagreeing with it, just adding another perspective.
That being said… i don’t think it’s needed to change himself to get any of this. I am currently in college, and have managed to be sufficiently stuck on staying by myself as to not learn anyones names while living in a dorm. That almost takes effort…
I spend almost all my time on the computer, or in books, and have somewhere between 2-4 friends, but only 1 i talk to regularly… my girlfriend. That point being, i almost never talk to anyone, but i’ve (very) slowly accumulated a group of friends, and even managed to find a similarly minded girlfriend.
Am i saying you should just go on, ignore everything said, and assume it will work out? probably not. However, there is a fairly wide range of people out there, with different interests, (as has been said already) and some people actually might find you interesting enough to try to draw you out of your shell.
… that rambled a bit, but i hope you figure out what i meant.
(And no, I’m not nor am I affiliated with any therapist, doctor, etc.) But think about it a second. While the same can be said for any profession (“why should the Geek Squad fix my computer? They have a vested interest in keeping it buggy so as to keep me paying!” “Why should the plumber fix my toilet? He has a vested interest in keeping me paying to snake it!”) it just doesn’t make financial sense in the long term for any of them. Why not? Well, professional ethics aside, most of their business comes from referals - some from professional collegues, but most from satisfied customers and clients. If they’re providing a sucky service, no one will refer to them, and they will make no more money. It’s much more logical to help people honestly and do a good job at it, even if you then lose them as a client. A satisfied client will refer multiple people to you. Lather, rinse, repeat.
“Seeking therapy” does not mean commiting yourself to weekly sessions for life (although some people like to do that) it means going in, identifying your problems clearly, and getting assistance in achieving predetermined goals by changing your behavior. When are you done? When you’ve met your goals. What are those goals? Whatever you decide: inviting someone over for dinner, or throwing a party, or finding a girlfriend. Whatever would, to you, indicate success. If you can identify the problem, set and attain goals on your own, you don’t need a therapist. But, if you can’t. they can be helpful.
Many, many things all coming together at once, but mostly it was from the reading that I was doing at the time. I read the same idea in a few different books (specifically Harlan Ellison’s story Lonelyache and Terry Pratchett’s books, if you can believe it) over the course of a few months and I started to think about it.
I went on a road trip for 2 weeks by myself driving all through the mid- and north-west of the US to visit schools that I was interested in. During that time, I spent all but one night with friends of my parents. I remember realizing then just how rich my parents were- rich in people who love them.
I also noticed that without somebody else to bounce my thoughts off of, it was harder to tell if they were crazy thoughts or sane.
I’m not very good at describing my thought process then, but I realized that my isolationist ways were making me miserable, no matter how much I denied it. As much as I really didn’t like people, I needed them.
Sorry if that’s unclear. i don’t mind your asking more questions- I love talking about myself.
<Regarding therapists>
The trick, of course, is to make it seem like you’re helping when you’re really not, or to provide incomplete advice…“Here, take these pills, they’ll make you feel better”. That may be the case, but what they failed to mention was that you could also change something about yourself to fix the problem. For a significantly reduced price.
I do not mean to insult anyone who actually needs medication to deal with problems by my previous statement, I am just using it as an example.
<And this next part has something to do with therapists, but mostly discusses trust>
That said, there is no way I could ever share some things with them. The fear that I would be ruining, or hampering, some future goal would be too great.
For example, if I told the therapist “I secretly hate <insert race here> and I want to kill them all”, and then it just so happened that someone of <insert race here> was killed and I was subsequently arrested…Could I trust that the therapist would keep that secret? No.
Could I trust that the therapist would not consider me a danger to myself or others? No. I know that I’m not, but I do not know how the therapist will think of things I may say. Best not to take the risk, and make sure my mask never slips, never show what I’m really thinking.
<Now we come to the thoughts going through my head at the time I was writing this post>
'Sides that, if a therapist ever asked me “how did that make you feel?” I’d just have to answer “I don’t”, and that doesn’t get anywhere. The vast majority of situations I run into cause no emotional reaction.
And now I’d like to take a moment to retract something: There are a few situations that cause some feeling; anger, sadness, loneliness, and probably a few more. The good emotions, though? I can’t say when the last time I felt happy or excited was. I can’t even remember a time when I felt happy about something. This is probably where my belief that I don’t (or shouldn’t) have emotions springs from. I am modifying my original statement (that I don’t have emotions) to “I try not to”.
I think that the reason I don’t have (many)friend, and by extension, romantic relationships has something to do with my thoughts on trust, though that is by no means the only factor.
shrug It seems that I have answered part of my question (which I didn’t even know I was asking)…The next part, of course, is why do I sometimes want things to change (leading to, say, my OP), and other times I couldn’t care less…Updates forthcoming!
You would not need to “trust” that the therapist would keep confidential anything you said. There is a privilege that protects your statements to a therapist. You hold the privilege – i.e., you control what gets said or not said. In other words, the therapist is not permitted to tell anyone what you said. If the therapist violates privilege without your permission, it cannot be used in court.
Some jurisdictions make an exception to this (the Tarasoff rule – if you google Tarasoff, you’ll see). When a patient makes a clear threat to a third party, and the therapist believes his patient poses a serious threat of danger to a specific person, the therapist has a duty to take reasonable steps under the circumstances to prevent harm. Those steps could include warning the third party or the police, or, frankly, telling the patient that the therapist has a duty to protect the third party.
Bottom line, though, outside of that narrow exception, whatever you tell your therapist is privileged, and you shouldn’t let that get in your way of talking to someone.
One final thought – you’re not alone, and frankly you’re not unique. It’s a bit hubristic of you to think that you could go talk to a therapist, have the therapist ask you, “How does that make you feel?” say, “I don’t know,” and have the therapist say, “Gosh! I’ve never heard that before!” You may need to try a couple people before you find someone you’re comfortable with, but it’s worth it.
A friend had some issues (different from yours, but definitely holding her back). On the third therapist she tried, she felt comfortable. He “fired” her after about eight months, telling her that they’d gone as far as they could and she was good on her own. It really, really helped her, and I hope you look for that kind of opportunity for yourself.
And if they decide to break it? I sue them? Again, I have to trust that their dedication to the privilage is greater than whatever they might gain from releasing the information. Of course, I have nothing to share that would be so great that it would cause them to stop working as a therapist and risk a lawsuit…but the thought is there. Furthermore, what if they have someone else, say, typing up their records? Someone who does not respect that privilage?
Therein lies the problem. How can I be sure the therapist won’t believe that I present a danger to a third person? Furthermore, how can I be sure the therapist won’t declare me insane and throw me in an asylum? As long as I don’t have contact with a therapist I can be reasonably sure that they won’t think me insane. Again, though that probably isn’t the case, I can’t be sure.
My point was that the conversation dies there, not that I’m in any way special. Perhaps a therapist would be able to go somewhere with it though.
I’m always surprised that people take the time to respond to me, and I thank those of you who did.
