I have heard numerous remarks over the years that having a baby somwhow makes a woman “whole” or “complete”. Think Murphy Brown singing “You Make Me Feel (like a natual woman)” to her newborn. (We won’t even go into Charlene’s “Sometimes I get to crying for unbord children that might have made me complete”, for we are respecatable people here).
Question: How widespread is the concept? Do you, personally, ascribe to it?
If so, how do you reconcile that belief with any feminist views you hold.
As an old lefty (male), I would like to consider this concept outdated, sexist garbage, but yet, it seems so pervasive, albeit well camoflaged, even today.
So, no, I’m not a subscriber to the view at all. This may have something to do with me being in my mid-twenties and a workaholic. It does sound like outdated sexist garbage.
That said, I do get on well with children - all my cousins’ children (they’re young - <5years old) seem to adore me, and I adore them. But wanting a child to make me complete? Oh please. :rolleyes:
I have heard this concept and have relatives who believe it to be true.
Me? I don’t need children to feel complete. Beyond that (and I know it’s not the point of the OP), I don’t have to have a man in a romantic role in my life to feel complete.
The life I make for myself is what’s important. If I find someone with whom I want to share my life and if he and I decide to have kids, fine. If we don’t, then that’s fine too.
Don’t mind me - I’m just getting ready for the onslaught of questions from the above mentioned relatives. 19 days and counting. Yippee.
I want kids. Of course, I want to be a good Mom to my kids, so I firmly believe that I need to be complete before I have kids. I think you can be a complete person with or without kids, but if you really, really want to have a baby, then it must be very satisfying when you finally do.
Ya know, breeding didn’t suddenly leave me with this permaglow of contentment. Just sayin’
It’s very old fashioned, sure, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t some truth to it also. I’ve seen a lot of women forced to slow down and finally just be one thing for awhile, having total responsibility of another person tends to focus one’s energies, eh? Picture a twenty-something overwhelmed with all the choices available, you know the type, afraid to commit to anything lest there’s a better choice. I’ve watched a lot of head-nodding and I-told-you-soing amongst my older female relatives when becoming a mother ‘changes’ one of the younger generation.
OTOH, I think we socialize little girls to expect to grow up and be mommies someday. Maybe all that playing with babydolls and pushing toy strollers does something after all.
I don’t believe anyone can ever call themselves complete in the true sense of the word. To me, as life unfolds new experiences, I believe I change, adapt and learn. Sure, I’m way more “complete” now than I was years ago, but having children was certainly not the cause.
If anything, at times, once having had kids, you are sometimes less of yourself, because being a mother really can take so much of your own identity, wants and needs away.
Never had kids and am rapidly speeding past my childbearing years. I personally never felt a serious need to have children.
The attitude described in the OP sounds old-fashioned to me. But judging by the number of women who go through fertility treatments to have kids, or who agonize because they don’t/can’t have kids, there’s a pretty strong urge in most people to reproduce.
I’m sure I’ve missed out on stuff by not being a mom. On the other hand, I wouldn’t have experienced a lot of the things I was able to do because I was NOT a mom. So it’s a trade-off.
I have seen this attitude sometimes, and it does offend me. I’m a 20-year-old female and I decided a while ago that I don’t want children. Just don’t. I have absolutely no desire for offspring at all. And I don’t feel like any less of a person for it. But I have friends who constantly say, “Oh, you’ll change your mind, just wait, watch, you’ll be the first one of us with kids, you’ll end up with like five, you just wait and you’ll change your mind…” And that’s offensive, as is the general idea that a woman isn’t truly a woman until she reproduces. It’s utter crap. I don’t want kids. I don’t really like kids. I could not handle kids and I would be a shitty mother. I’d rather have kittens. They’re cuter and they grow up a lot faster.
And… umm… that was a but of a rant, but the gist of it is that I’m not sure exactly how widespread the attitude is, but I have encountered it, and no, I most definitely don’t subscribe to it.
I have no problem with women who don’t feel complete until they have a child. The urge to reproduce is strong, and some people are born (dare I say, called) to do it.
I have no problem with women who don’t want kids. Some don’t like kids, some want to dedicate themselves to a bigtime career. That’s cool.
You can be happy and live a full life either way.
My daughter was a “surprise,” but a welcome one. I can’t imagine life without her. My world will not fall apart, though, if something happens and I’m not able to have any more. She’s the best thing I ever did, but I can be happy with just one child, I think. I don’t look to her to “complete” me, though. For me, that’s too big of a job for anyone but God.
I’ve not heard of this concept exactly as it is described in the OP, but a great many variations on it, that amount to the same thing.
I’m 19 and female and I have no desire to have kids ever. Never have.
I get the same comments as AntaresJB ‘Oh, you really do want them, you know. Deep down. You’ll see.’ Thank you, but I am far more capable of knowing my own mind than you.
I have already made up my mind that SHOULD the urge ever come over me to raise a child, I’ll adopt one. I think if anyone can claim to be prepared to have a child, they need be prepared to love whoever they end up with, no matter what. If I felt prepared for that, I see no reason why I should prefer a child biologically mine or a child that currently has no one who feels that way about them.
But as it is, my mind seems pretty set on not being anyone’s mother at any point in my life. I live in a far too carefree way, I act on whims, often very irresponsibly, I like to travel without having a clear destination in mind and at the moment my career ambitions (though they are going nowhere currently) do not make for a good, stable life for a kid.
And I just feel NO maternal instincts or desires. None. Zilch.
Also, I can’t stand babies. lol
But anyway, I do not feel incomplete at the prospect of not reproducing, nor do I ever expect to.
Much like Guinastasia I am almost offended by this concept. (Not by the poster of the OP, just by the idea - which he is right to ask about before subscribing to)
I’d like to add - or, the three males (same age as me) in the room with me - would like to add that they all agree it’s a stereotype, and an old-fashioned one at that, to assume that all women want desperately to have children and will be forever incomplete without them.
They also think it should be mentioned that many guys also agonize when they find out they cannot have children, some having just as much a reproductive urge as women. Mark here says he would be devastated if he couldn’t have kids (And is now rapidly assuring us he doesn’t want them YET ).
So there we go - It’s an individual thing, that has been stereotyped in accordance with the majority. (Which is true I think - more people want to have children than don’t.)
Feminist here with 2 living children and a history of infertility. I really really wanted children and my life did feel incomplete without children. If I had not succeeded in having living babies, I would have still found life worthwhile and I would have found ways of filling the gap but I think that would have been very difficult for me.
I have no desire for more children (esp since P the Y just barfed all over the sofa 10 minutes ago) but my life does feel more ‘right’. I don’t think it is at odds with feminism because it’s about choice. I chose to have babies, another woman chose differently but we both can be feminists.
If it’s just social pressure on women, it seems to be working pretty well in this neck of the woods:
EVERY girl I met in college wanted to have children.
EVERY woman I met outside college, or since graduation, has either had children or wanted them.
Furthermore, they ALL said they planned to give up their chosen careers as soon as they met men who would support them while they stayed home and had babies.
More than half of the college girls I knew were majoring in elementary education… until they had kids of their own, they planned to spend their days with OTHER people’s kids.
The ONLY woman I’ve met who ever expressed a desire to remain childless was my sister… and she has her pets to occupy whatever nurturing instinct she may have.
Women even put similar social pressure on MEN when they have a chance, at least in my experience:
Several women that I dated tried to convince me that I really DID want kids… one even insisted that she’d change my mind after we got married. Mind you, these conversations were happening on the first or second date!
Women who were practically total strangers (teachers, classmates, fellow standers-in-line at banks and such) would forcefully insist that I either DID or soon WOULD want children… apparently as soon as I met a sufficiently attractive woman.
It’s almost as if they’re trying to ensure a steady supply of sperm (and male financial support) for their sisters…
I was one of those young women people always said would want children one day. I’m now 42 and still don’t particularly want one. Strangely, I don’t mind the idea of raising a child, but the thought of bearing a child is repugnant. And I don’t know why - I have no horror of the delivery - between them by sisters have born 10 children without so much as an epidural. They all say it’s no big deal.
My nephew’s best friend and the friend’s girlfriend are unexpectedly and unwelcomely pregnant. I told them that if they really didn’t want to raise the child, I’d take it. They’re considering it - they know me and the influence I’ve had on my nephew. I think I could do well at it. She’s 3 1/2 months along. I really don’t know what will happen in 5 months. She may grow to love the child she’s carrying. We’ll see.
Some friends of mine have said similar things about feeling complete once they’ve had children.
I guess if you’ve wanted kids forever, maybe you do feel more complete when you finally acheive that goal. Much as you do when you acheive any major goal you’ve worked for. Personally, I don’t think having a child would make me feel more complete. Then again, having children was never a goal of mine.
Then there’s my sister in law frequently says “I finally realized what it meant to be a woman when I had my first child.” When I hit 37, I told her my biological clock’s alarm hadn’t gone off and I’d slept through my fertile years–so she could stop pushing me to have kids. Her response was that she feels sorry for me because I’ll never experience being a true woman since I’m not a mother. Ah well, I’m not exactly miserable. True woman or not.
The first time I came across the idea that a woman isn’t really a woman until she had kids was in a Spin magazine interview with Roseanne, which didn’t exactly argue for the idea’s credibility. And this was pre-end-of-sitcom-descent-into-utter-wackiness.
I don’t ascribe to it, though I realize looking back that many people of my aquaintence might. My mother always speaks of “when you have kids” rather than “if you have kids.” I really can’t picture myself with a child, but I don’t see where this makes me any less of a woman, and I don’t really care if other people don’t see me as a “true woman” because of it.
26, childless, want kids if and when I’m in a situation that would permit me to raise them in the way I’d want to.
I think “complete” is taking the concept a bit too far, but I do know many women who feel that when they became mothers, it added a new dimension to their lives and personalities–the nurturing role they’d never filled before. Often awakening feelings they hadn’t had before.
But as for “completing” them in some spiritual way–haven’t heard that. Sounds like an exaggeration to me.
Amen to that! I am rarely referred to as “Carla” anymore. I am now Chris’ hot mom or Beth’s cute mom, etc. (LOL)
I seriously find it hard to believe that anybody has not ever heard of the concept of a woman not feeling complete unless she has had children. I agree that not everybody <i>believes</i> the concept, but certainly everyone has heard the concept at some point in their life. If not, they must be living under a rock. Or maybe I’m just old.
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