Aside from everything else, Mueller is not going to wrap up his case on anything involving Trump (assuming he thinks there may be a case on that particular matter) until he gets his interview with Trump himself, at a minimum.
Okay. Now I’m confused. Is this backtracking? Or backtracking on the backtracking?
Trump Imposes New Sanctions on Russia Over Cyberattacks
and
Russian spy attack: Donald Trump backs Theresa May’s expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats
I’m getting a crick in my neck.
Nice sentiment, but wishful thinking I think. He, might, maybe, get Kushner and Don Jr on that (who of course Trump will pardon almost immediately). That will be more mud on Trump, but he’s already 100% mud so big deal.
There’s serious legal question as to wether you can prosecute a sitting president for a crime. So I don’t think he would necessarily be “put away” by money laundering. More mud again, but that’s par for the course.
And, if firing Comey, and thinking about firing Mueller, both public knowledge, were so obviously a case of obstruction on it’s face, I really believe he would have charged him by now.
Suppose Ivanka and Kushner and Don Jr. all get indicted. Suppose they all get pardoned on federal charges. The trouble for them is that accepting the pardons will be admission of guilt on their part, and certainly their money laundering and real estate fraud can and would be prosecuted by the State of New York. In addition, once free of federal prosecution they’d be unable to invoke the 5th amendment if called to testify in the grand jury against the Orange Daddy.
There is some question about whether a president can be indicted, as well as some question about whether he can pardon himself. My guess is the Mueller is so offended and outraged by the crime spree in the White House that he would like to test both of these questions.
I notice the qualifier “serious” added to the word “collusion” now. But besides that…
Yes, I think it was a typically clueless Trump guy, in particular Don Jr., but what he was doing in this typically clueless way sure sounds like collusion. We know he was eager to collude from the email we have. And his lame defense is that collusion didn’t happen because the Russians in the meeting didn’t come through with the goods - and we don’t know that this is true, it’s just the most recent thing they’ve told us about that meeting, when every previous thing they told us has already been shown to be a lie.
The point I’m wanting to make is that your description of the typically clueless Trump guy, and the idea of collusion, are not exclusive of each other. Collusion is what apparently happened as a result of the cluelessness.
From this morning’s Washington Post, an article and an opinion on Donald boasting of his ability to tell lies.
In fundraising speech, Trump says he made up trade claim in meeting with Justin Trudeau
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2018/03/14/in-fundraising-speech-trump-says-he-made-up-facts-in-meeting-with-justin-trudeau/?utm_term=.6dcee4cdde24
As he prepares to face Mueller, Trump boasts of his ability to lie
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/03/15/as-he-prepares-to-face-mueller-trump-boasts-of-his-ability-to-lie/?utm_term=.5928ca3e7d81ttp://
This should be fun.
That’s a fair thing for you to point out. But I think that qualifier is a legitimate addition.
Because the initial suspicion, and what triggered all these investigations and discussions, was that the Trump campaign, at a senior level, was complicit in Russian “hacking” or misinformation campaigns and the like. I was skeptical of that from the start (mainly because I didn’t see what why the Russians needed the Trump people, and because of the absence of leaks about it), and my skepticism has grown over time as evidence of this has failed to emerge despite enormous resources thrown at it by media organizations, congressional committees etc.
But that’s all as to the initially suspected collusion. If you’re going to argue, for example, that a Trump guy trying to get opposition research from someone connected to the Russian government counts as “collusion”, then that’s something else, and I would have a lot less confidence that this has not happened. (Well actually it obviously did happen in that case of DTjr, at least the “trying” part, but it wouldn’t surprise me if some other Trump guy, especially a Papadopoulos type, might have gotten something along these lines.)
In sum, I don’t feel like I’m changing anything by adding “serious”. “Serious” is what the initial discussion was about, and this was understood at that time. Over time, as genuine evidence backing up the initial suspicions has not come up, people have seized on these lesser acts as technically fitting the term, so the qualifier becomes necessary. But it’s just clarifying that I’m referring to “collusion” as understood at the beginning of these discussions.
I am not sure that trying to get opposition research from people connected to the foreign governments counts as “collusion” or is at all uncommon in political campaigns, assuming you believe that the information is legit.
Leaving that aside, the facts of the meeting don’t suggest that this meeting produced actual information. Most notably Kushner’s claim that he texted (or emailed - I forget) his assistant to contact him with an excuse to get out of the meeting - and I assume Mueller would have access to this and can verify it.
The main significance of that incident to me is that DTjr was told in the email that this meeting was part of a broader Russian government effort to help his father’s campaign and was apparently pleased with that and open to accepting such help. That would raise the possibility that there may have been other instances of Russian government help that DTjr might have accepted just as eagerly. But WRT that this was a guy with zero experience in politics not appreciating the import of what he was reading or doing, and that a broader type of collusion would have involved people who were more intelligent and experienced and would have been more likely to balk at it. (Further, that a more blatant type of collusion - hey, let’s set up some bots to spread misinformation about HRC - would have been a step beyond what DTjr was reacting to in that instance.)
The goalposts are now in another stadium.
Mueller has subpoenaed the Trump Organization. I guess he is a suspect after all. Who would have guessed?
From the article (my bold): “The subpoena is the latest indication that the investigation, which Mr. Trump’s lawyers once regularly assured him would be completed by now, will drag on for at least several more months.”
But I want the indictments now.
Let’s say Donald Trump Sr. was outright taking money directly from Russian government officials – the worst possible situation. I think you would argue that Trump had zero experience in politics, so he wasn’t really aware of what he was doing, and besides which it wasn’t like the Russians were bribing EVERYONE in the campaign, like the ones with more brains and experience… am I right?
Sanctions, nearly identical to what Obama did in December 2016, nearly a year and a half after the cyber attacks. Wow, that’s bold.
I bet we can expect the Treasury Department to institute sanctions on the Russian intelligence services due to their assassination on the land of our ally in, oh… October 2019.
You have to prep the ground for the new goalposts.
Probably with Princess Peach.
But it really is something to watch someone deliberately and meticulously move the goalposts while simultaneously accusing you of doing so. It’s like someone in a westbound boat saying “Look how fast those people on the shore are moving eastward!”
No one thinks the Trump campaign hacked the DNC. No one has ever thought that. And even though Trump stood onstage in front of TV cameras and jokingly asked the Russians to get Clinton’s emails, nobody thinks the Russians were doing his direct bidding. Of course, the current evidence suggests that the Trump campaign were well aware that the Russians had actually hacked the DNC already, and that they were in contact with the people (who knew people, who knew people) who could tell them exactly what was in those emails and when they were going to be leaked via Russia’s useful idiot Julian Assange (as Don Jr’s gloating messages suggest), and that the Trump campaign were perfectly happy for this to happen because they benefited from it. And while the evidence for a quid pro quo is limited, the fact that the Trump campaign actively altered the GOP platform with regard to Ukraine in a direction highly advantageous to Russia - one of very few changes it made to the platform, and for no apparent non-collusional reason - at roughly the same time this was happening is highly suspicious. Is that “collusion”? It looks an awful lot like it. Is that “serious collusion”? Well now, that’s a different kettle of fish.
But I suppose we could humor F-P and pretend that we didn’t just see him sidle four steps to the right and then express astonishment that we’re all over here to the left of him. In the end what matters is what comes out of the investigation, and if F-P is that desperate for some shreds of validation for whatever his position is this week, maybe we should let the poor man have it.
No.
What I’m saying - I thought this was clear before but maybe not - that you need to judge what DTjr did for what it was and can’t extrapolate to anything more significant and involving more experienced people, for the reason cited.
So if you want to make a case that what DTjr actually did in that meeting amounts to collusion, then you can certainly nail him for that, and if he had zero experience in politics etc., then it’s his own fault for getting involved with something he didn’t understand.
But if you want to say “going beyond what DTjr is known to have done in that meeting, we can extrapolate beyond that to a broader and more significant collusion”, then that’s where DTjr being inexperienced in politics and possibly not too bright altogether becomes relevant.
This new news of Mueller subpoenas of the Trump Organization state that the subpoenas were issued weeks ago. Anyone suspect that the recent cabinet shakeups are somehow being used to justify ousting Sessions and replace him with a non-recused lickspittle?
I’ll say it’s a mistake to see anything in a Trump action deeper than spite, impulse and panic. He’s enraged at those warning him that another Saturday Night Massacre would force his impeachment, but *somebody *has to pay for this!
I just had a thought: What if the chances of getting a charge to stick on Trump are slim, but the chances of scaring him are high?
At what point does he (or one of his team) say “Hey, everything’s about to come out! Time to sneak out for a long vacation … in the next half hour! Somewhere without an extradition treaty … now, where’s that David Dennison passport?”
I’d say the chances are near zero, but I like the imagery. And it completes our transition into full-blown banana republic status. Trump (in his African dictator uniform) slipping out of the country one step ahead of the law. Newscasts ever after will begin “Former President Trump, now living in exile in Zimbabwe…”
At least he’d finally be a billionaire!