I don’t think so. Some of his base has taken to wearing a tee shirt that says “Better a Russian Than a Democrat” They don’t care.
"Some viewers who encountered this image online were so bewildered by the shirt’s message — Would supporters of an American president really voice support for a hostile foreign power over their fellow Americans? — that they wondered if the photograph had been doctored in some way. The photograph, however, is real.
This picture was taken by Cleveland.com reporter Jeremy Pelzer at a Trump rally at the Olentangy Orange High School in Ohio on 4 August 2018:"
THIS is where we are now. THIS is the fucking “base”.
All right. I think some that idolize him for his money, and the women that he buys may think twice about him if they find out he is essentially owned by others. But, we run into a basic problem here. His base voted for him in the first place. Critical thinking is not in their bag of tricks.
So what do we do? His base doesn’t listen to facts or get any news. Our option is to vote. And every one of us must vote. From County Commissioner and Clerk to Senators and Representatives, I will from now on never vote for a republican. I know that’s not very logical, I’m a moderate. But we must reform half of our political system.
Kick every republican in the ass until they get the message that they work for us.
I will be voitng straight ticket too. However unlike you, I will never vote Repug, even if they “get the message”. They blew it. They chose Russian and money and treason over country. Deliberately. They are “dead to me”.
Completely agree, and hell, I used to volunteer for Newt Gingrich back when I lived in GA6. The only scenario which will have me voting for the Repubs is if I can vote in an open primary, selecting “corporate whore planet rapist” over “corporate whore planet rapist pedophile”.
We’re going to have a conservative party, one way or the other, because conservatism is a characteristic less than a political persuasion. For me, conservative means to accept the necessity of change but concerned with prudent and cautious implementation. Don’t throw out the baby with the bongwater!
If we are to have a sane and responsible Republican Party, this one has to be clobbered. Burned up, fall over, sink into the swamp, then rise from the stinky ashes anew, as a minority party of the Loyal Opposition. If our national car needs a motor, it also needs brakes. And, of course, if the sovereign city council of Berzerkley demands ten billion dollars for vegan gay whales, we need someone to blame if it gets voted down.
How much political power would a chastened and reformed Republican Party end up with? Dunno, but eager to find out.
“…In their eyes, there’s something lacking, what they need’s a damned good whacking!..”
True, trying to sway his base is unlikely to happen. They have their reasons for supporting him, whether it is because they actually think it is good fo the country or not, but they are not going to be changing their minds.
The way to beat them is not to convert them, but to outnumber them. I am cautiously optimistic about this, but we will see in the fall.
Have to agree with both of you. And no, I can’t every imagine voting for a republican again (not sure if I ever have).
But this must go from the bottom up. EVERY republican in any race for any position. That makes me a bit sad. I’m sure there are some good ones in local elections, but I have no idea how else to send the message that this party is dead. They only care about themselves. The republicans in DC have made this very, very clear.
It’s an old saying… “When someone shows you who they are, believe them”.
I really think the only way that even a portion of his ‘base’ will care is if Trump basically destroys the economy. It’s easy to be conservative when you’re not living with the consequences of conservatism. But even if there are soup kitchens and bread lines, there will be some who will refuse to consider the possibility that their votes had anything to do with it. Hopefully, though, there will be just enough ex-Republicans who understand that their party is a trash heap, and that they’ve been duped into voting for culture wars and against fake enemies. If we can get to the point where maybe we’re down to 15% of the voting population voting out of nothing more than self interest, racism, or howl-at-the-moon religiosity, then maybe we can just accept democracy’s imperfections and move on toward a new era of bipartisan pragmatism
I stopped voting Republican for good in 2007-8. The writing was on the wall when the Tea Party came to down - you could tell then that we were entering the political dark ages.
I would still consider voting ‘R’ but it would almost surely be a local race with no importance beyond local politics, which is where I think the Republican party’s true strengths are, and always have been, anyway. But for federal or even statewide elections, probably never again.
What disturbs me is to see Republicans like John Kasich and John McCain stay with the party. I can understand them not becoming democrats but at least become independents for Christ’s sake. They really need to give up on the idea that there’s any saving the rot that has become the Republican party.
Yes, and to that end, that means making sure that people get out and participate in their democracy - not just in this election, but again in mid-terms and in local races that hardly anyone typically cares about.
I think one of the most overlooked aspects of our current state is the lackluster participation of the voting-eligible public. About 30 percent of voters have essentially checked out of American democracy:
Also, as has been stated before, the White voter turnout in 2016 increased; the Latino vote declined slightly, and the black turnout declined noticeably.
He’s sending Paul Manafort to prison right now. Rick Gates will eventually go to prison, sweetheart deal notwithstanding. Alex Van Der Swaan (small fish) has already served his sentence. George Papadoupolos will soon be doing a stint. Can’t wait to see how much time Mike Flynn gets. Of course Mueller can send people to prison. The only person perhaps protected from prison during his term as “president” is Trump, and that is not a settled question. You better believe he can send anyone and everyone involved in this conspiracy to prison, up to and including Mike Pence, either now or eventually, if he gets the chance to prosecute them and the evidence is there to convict them. Even Trump can only postpone prosecution until he is out of office.
He’s not Superman. He is very good at what he does. His success and failure is not a black-and-white situation. I personally believe his successes will far outweigh his failures. The fact that he’s still in his job and doing it speaks to how effective he’s already been, without saying a word. Now that he’s had enough time to protect his investigation by disbursing it throughout various jurisdictions, Trump can try to stop it, but his success in doing that will be very limited, and it will come at a high political cost.
Merneith, I apologize for misspeaking. I meant “policy,” not “rule.” My understanding is that Eric Holder was the one who put it in motion. It has nothing to do with when Holder was around v. what Comey did. Comey clearly violated the policy. And in case it wasn’t clear, nowhere in my post did I say or imply that Mueller’s investigation should conclude during the mid-term period, only that it will go quiet during that time. I agree with Wesley Clark that the Mueller probe will go on for many years, as have other investigations (Whitewater, Benghazi, etc.) The Giuliani bullshit notion that the investigation must conclude 60 days before the mid-term election is just that: More Giuliani bullshit.
For some bizarre reason different rules apply to governmental officials. Mueller won’t take those results of his investigation concerning them to the law, but to a congress that’s currently more interested in maintaining power than governing. This congress will ignore the results utterly. They’ll probably quote the bible to justify it, if past performance is any indication of future results.
I was gobsmacked years ago when Bush was allowed to dictate the terms of his testifying. Not under oath? Not on the record? With Dick Cheney there to hold his hand? I was disgusted when Sessions was allowed to pretend he couldn’t remember anything he’d done or anyone he’d met during the Trump campaign. Now I just accept the US is a failed nation and hope the next bunch that governs the land currently calling itself the United States of America isn’t foolish enough to run itself the way the US does.
That’ll be too late. A moral victory, I guess, but the damage he means to do will have been done.
On this we disagree. Mueller’s report will be massive. It will outline all the Russian intervention on the 2016 campaign, as well as detail all illegal activities of any American who helped them. But the only individual for whom Mueller will make a recommendation for impeachment (assuming facts warrant such a recommendation, and I believe they will) and/or any action by Congress, is Trump.
Mueller has the authority to deal with all others outside the impeachment process through the regular judicial process, and he will. I doubt Congress – especially a Congress with House controlled by Democrats – will attempt to stop him in any way. In fact, I expect them to do their bit to shore up Meuller’s results by pursuing meaningful investigations of their own.
I do agree with you on this point. But I view Trump’s remaining in office all the way to 2020 as the worst case scenario. I honestly believe that when the full extent of Russian subversion of our 2016 election is known, along with the names of the Americans who helped them (notably Trump), public opinion will turn hard. Even Republican senators won’t be able to ignore what the public demands, if impeachment is called for. That’s why the Giuliani/Sekulow Shit Show is focused entirely on swaying public opinion. Public opinion is the only thing that matters, in the end.
I hate, hate, HATE that. Seriously fuckers, care about your community. Get out and vote for your town council, your school board, your city mayor, your fucking dog catcher. These are the people that have great impact on your and your community, and they are the ones who you have the most control over with your vote.
Local races fucking matter. And not just for the aspect of having a say in local politics, but also in building up a stable of politicians to promote to higher offices. You think that Boehner started out as speaker? No, he started out on an HOA board overseeing a swimming pool and a clubhouse.
Get the fuck out, and vote on these things. IT is important.
And while you are there, may as well vote in national elections as well.
And that is because they think that their vote doesn’t matter, because all they ever hear about is the national elections. The only election that matters to many is the one every four years where we choose the resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, a person they will never meet, never influence, and who will never do anything about that pothole in front of their driveway or plow their streets. (Okay, if we elect Corey Booker, maybe he will do these things.)
We can only hope that all those trends are reversing. Seems to be the case in many of the special elections. Assuming we get to have free and fair elections 3 months from now, we’ll see how those trends add up.
Given the difficulties that many black americans face wile trying to vote, it is hard to fault them. When you hear about a 7 hour line to vote, it requires some level of motivation and inspiration to go out and spend your day adding your tiny voice to the maelstrom. Hillary didn’t inspire that motivation the way Obama did. Hopefully, seeing the consequences of giving russia unfettered control over our nation will be motivating this year.
But, it really does come down to essentially disenfranchisement. When I go vote (in a pretty white neighborhood), it is very rare that there is someone in front of me. I spend more time in the ballot booth than I do waiting for my ballot. I also vote in nearly every election and primary I can.
I honestly don’t know if I would do that with a 7 hour line.
Some might recall my thread where I debated what to do for the mid-terms. I changed my registration from Libertarian to Independent but, for the primary, I can select a Republican, Democrat, or Green ballot if I like. I chose the Rs to see if I could help pull them back from the brink. Here are the three candidates for US Senate: Martha McSally Kelli Ward Joe Arpaio
All three of them have been sucking on Trump’s teat. Which shall I reward and which shall I kick in the ass? I am not sure there are any Republicans left worth saving.
That’s why I called it essentially disenfranchisement.
My “proposed rule” would be that everyone has to wait at the polling place as long as anyone had to wait at a polling place in the last presidential election.
So, I get there, and they ask me to go ahead and wait in the halway for 7 hours before I can cast my vote.
I think that we would find lines get pretty short pretty quickly.