If that were the case, I only wish he were a much younger man so he could experience his shame and poverty for a much longer time.
I want to see him pawing through trash for scraps of food while Dylan’s Like a Rolling Stone blares in the background.
This prospect was put forward by some of our most intelligent and perceptive members. Out of respect for their modesty, I won’t name them.
I don’t.
But I’d love to hear about it!
Thinking the story is ridiculous is not the same as misunderstanding it.
Right. That’s exactly why it’s important for you to appreciate that you misunderstood it.
Specifically, you confused the initial meeting (which is what DTJ said he did not communicate to his father) with the later crafting of a response to media reporting on that meeting (which is what DTJ said he discussed with Hope Hicks).
You are not “supposed to believe” that the communication to HH was not relayed to Donald Trump Sr, because no one is making that claim.
Your serious argument here, is that Trump Jr communicated with Hope Hicks about responding to a meeting with Russians without bringing up the meeting with Russians. That’s ridiculous.
Of course that’s ridiculous. But again, no one claimed that.
By the time Trump Jr. was speaking to HH, everyone already knew about the meeting, including Trump Sr. The question of whether Trump Sr was informed about the meeting is about whether he knew about when it happened, during the campaign.
I agree. Everyone, including Trump Sr already knew about it. We are in agreement. Trump found out about the meeting either directly from Trump Jr, or from Hope HIcks. Which is why this:
“Trump Jr. firmly denied that he had communicated with his father about the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting, according to the sources.”
Makes no goddamned sense. Which is why I made the original statement:
He denied having communicated it to him at the time of the meeting.
No. He denied it yesterday. This article is about yesterday.
I think you’re playing dumb.
The problem is, even then you’re not cute …
So you figured out where you went wrong. Got it.
Wasting time on you?
No. You got it when you realized that you misunderstood the article when you posted this:
Pluperfect.
(Look it up - maybe you’ll learn something. Maybe.)
Hey, I’ll play, since I’m obsessed with this debacle. Member of the Peanut Gallery here, offering optimistic, solicited speculation:
Mueller’s investigation will do mortal damage to Trump and his administration.
My definition of “mortal damage” is that Trump will be revealed beyond all reasonable doubt as a traitor and a criminal, and that many if not most in his administration not only supported the conspiracy, but actively participated in it. All will pay a price. It will be a heavy one. It will take some years to fully play out.
I believe that Mueller is extremely strategic. I think he will carve Kushner and Don Jr. out of what he needs to take down Trump, so as to avoid raising Trump’s ire more than necessary until he, Mueller, can complete his work to the greatest extent possible. I don’t look for Kushner or Don Jr. to be prosecuted until after Trump is out of office. Mueller will have all he needs from other members of the Trump team looking to save their own necks. One hard lesson Trump will soon learn is, few give undying loyalty to those who are unwilling to reciprocate.
I have never expected a Republican congress to move to impeach Trump. But a Democratic House after 2018 mid-terms, along with a few gains in the Senate, will fundamentally shift the conversation. Meaningful congressional investigations will be done rather than the charades (despite best efforts of Dems) we’re seeing today.
I remember Watergate and how long it took for the public to really tune in. Though we are fighting against the propaganda media machines of Murdoch, Bannon and others, it’s encouraging to see how many people already accept the Russia issue as a serious matter and understand Trump is lying about it. (Most Americans Approve of Trump Russia Probe (WaPo)) This sentiment can only grow throughout 2018 in advance of the mid-term elections as more information is revealed and the public becomes better educated about it. The process feels painfully slow, but things are actually moving quite fast.
If Dems do prevail in 2018, impeachment becomes a real possibility. If they manage to take even just 2 seats in the Senate, moving 21 Republican Senators to take a “principled” stance (under cover of the Mueller investigation, of course) may not be such a high bar.
The 25th Amendment is a potential, but maybe less so than impeachment. I think Pence continues to back Trump only because he is afraid of what Mueller can do to him. Were he freed from that concern, he’d have been pushing for impeachment support among cabinet members in a New York minute. But because of his own legal jeopardy, he continues with his slavish devotion to Trump. Without Pence on board, I think the 25th is less likely.
So…
I believe a very big day is coming. We will have no hint of it until it actually happens. There will be a Bloody Tuesday… Wednesday or Friday, take your pick. Arrests will be carried out, plea arrangements will be revealed.
People whom I feel sure will be scooped up into the net, either via arrest and prosecution or plea: Mike Pence, Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller, Sebastian Gorka, K. C. McFarland, Don McGahn, Roger Stone, Carter Page, Jeff Sessions, Rebekah Mercer, Felix Sader, Dana Rohrbacher, Reince Priebus, Hope Hicks, Erik Prince, Michael Cohen and a whole lot of other unfamiliar players whose names aren’t much in the news. Some charges will be held in abeyance for the family members, as will applicable state charges. Pence will be one of the first to fall so he will be out of the way to issue any pardon for Trump. Jeff Sessions will be one of the last, because he stands as an unfortunate bulwark against the firing of Mueller.
If my speculative day of reckoning becomes a reality, Trump will then be forced to make some choices, all of them bad: Issue a whole buttload of pardons, all with the baldly obvious intent to obstruct justice; move to fire Mueller, again with the same obvious intent; or simply to let the investigation continue. It is too late for either of the first two options. Pardons eliminate any Fifth Amendment protections for those pardoned – not a good result for Trump. Also does not preclude state level prosecutions in any way. As for firing Mueller, the investigation is now the embodiment of dozens of institutional employees who are taking all these slurs on their integrity very personally and will go on beyond Mueller. Republicans’ feeble attempts to discredit the investigation are already being effectively rebuked by those who have the power to do anything about it, such as Wray, Rosenstein and even Sessions, by his refusal to step down. Moreover at that point, Republicans would likely be forced by dint of public opinion to simply reinstate Mueller in a more protected capacity to carry on with his work.
When Mueller and his team are through with them at last, this cadre of criminals will be demolished. No different than a massive clean-up on Aisle Mafia. No different than Watergate. But for the youngsters, never forget it took more than 2 years for Watergate to result in Nixon’s resignation. Also important to remember is that at the end of it all, Watergate resulted in 69 government officials being charged and 48 being found guilty. What is before us now is far more complex and international in its scope. And far more serious than Watergate. Our very democratic republic is at stake. Patience and vigilance required.
It will be interesting to review this post in a couple years to see how on or off the mark I was.
TL; DR: They’re all going to burn to the ground. It’s going to take awhile.
From your lips to the Ears…
Yeah… it’s that, or I’ll be at your house cadging shots.
I sure hope you’re right Aspenglow. Watergate was a tea party compared to this.
I was pretty young in the Watergate years. Did not know that 48 where found guilty. That’s very good to know.
What will be the name of this if, hopefully, Muller can get this done? It should not be another ____Gate. This is much worse. TrumpGate is no good. Perhaps TrumpRape. The rape of democracy.