Temporary fixes? Finley would be the only short-term fix I suggested. Cuddyer would be a long-term solution since he is still in Minnesota’s AAA team and the Angels would have him at rock bottom prices for next to nothing for several seasons. He’s ready to play now, except the Twins have so many solid outfielders and outfield prospects they have no place for him.
So per my solution we get a solid pitcher for the rest of the season and maybe next to replace the junk we are currently stuck with. We get a solid (think young Tim Salmon) outfielder who will be around for several seasons, an upgrade at DH (Fullmer to Salmon) and a possible upgrade at first (Spiezio to Fullmer). All it costs is a first round pick (which will probably be a bust anyway) and a single decent pitching prospect (I don’t think Bootcheck or Turnbow are anything better than a 2 or 3 spot pitcher anyway).
Angels aren’t a small market. After the WS win they were leading baseball in attendance. But because of dumb moves by the management, they didn’t keep that momentum going. Which is the story of the franchise and why they don’t have a following. One season of success followed by several of failure. There is no reason why the Angels couldn’t sustain an $85-90 million payroll. In fact, I think the Angels are up to $75-80 million now. It wouldn’t bother me so much if they were just getting beat by the Yankees and Red Sox, but it’s the .500 clubs like Toronto and Baltimore and Texas that are causing major problems- teams the Angels should be beating fairly regularly.
As for our farm system now, it’s good, but all the major talent is in AA or lower. Kotchman is the only guy who can be really special in AAA, and even then, he’s got wrist problems which is NEVER a good sign. So I’m not sold on him and wouldn’t mind seeing him traded for someone truly special, preferably a pitcher. At any rate, he’s not going to be ready before 2005, so he won’t save us next year.
Also, it’s not offense that’s the problem. A little tweak like Cuddyer would be a help. It’s pitching! The only two guys who should be kept around are Washburn and Lackey. That’s it. Hopefully, by the time our young pitchers in the minors are ready Seattle will have died of old age, Beane will have left Oakland for some NL East team and Texas will still have not realized they need more pitching.
Crikey, at first I thought you meant MY favourite, Mr Steve Finley…javascript:smilie(’:eek:’)
eek!
On the other hand, having seen his one stellar inning of relief pitching for Arizona a coupla years ago, he probably is a better pitcher…javascript:smilie(’:D’)
big grin
Good pitching is not out there right now for the taking. What you are proposing is trading two of our top minor league pitchers. So what if they are only “2 or 3 spot” it sure as heck beats what alot of other teams have. Bootcheck was our number 1 draft last year. I think we should wait and see before we offload him.
Plus this year we should see how it goes with what we have and then grab some players off the free agent list at the end of the season. Makes more sense–the fans really want to go see The World Champion Anaheim Angels, not a different team than they put on the field last year. If we did what you propose aren’t we in danger of doing what the Marlins and Padres did after they won it all? Maybe we won’t be quite as bad as those two teams, but the appearance of a fire sale could really damage the reputation the Angels have built up in the community as a team that wants to win this year (notice I used the word appearance–sometimes that is more important than reality in developing and keeping a fan base).
No, I’m proposing one minor league pitcher. And it doesn’t have to be Bootcheck or Turnbow, I was just throwing names out. It could be a AA pitcher like Jenks or Fischer. One minor league pitcher to solve a problem before it becomes one in the OF.
**
What? Who’s proposing a different team? Not me. I didn’t say anything about a fire sale or making sweeping changes. I proposed bringing in a better pitcher (Finley) to replace someone who is stinking up the place (Sele), and bringing in a good young OF who can help the team win now. That’s improving the team’s ability to win this season. There’s no appearance of a fire sale. Two players. Standing around idly while the team falls further and further back in the standings gives the appearance of not wanting to win this year much more effectively than two upgrades. We’d still have Glaus at third, Molina behind the plate, Kennedy at second, Eckstein at short, Anderson in left and Salmon in right until Erstad gets back. The only major change would be instead of Owens or DaVannon in center, we’d have Cuddyer or Kielty. I don’t think many people would complain about that. And when Erstad got back, he’d move into center, Cuddyer or Kielty would move into left, and Salmon would go to DH. Fullmer and Spiezio could platoon at first. Pretty much the same team. As for the rotation, it would be the same, except Finley instead of Sele, and Sele didn’t even make the postseason roster or really play much last year. No fire sale. Just good personnel moves. And it doesn’t jeopardize the future, either.
You do realize Ersty is coming back in a week (next home stand). That is what was in the LATimes this morn. The move of Salmon to 1st base may be a little premature. I have seen him make some good catches out there this year and he has a good arm still. DaVannon has been playing well the last few days–it looks like he finally is getting used to the position.
I agree we need pitching and Sele has to go. I just don’t know where to get it. I don’t know if Finley is the answer. I see some pitchers that I would love to have in Anaheim. How about Pittsburgh’s D’Amico, but I don’t think we can afford him–they will want too much but if they would be willing to part for him at a reasonable price, it would be great to have him on the team.
I was talking to my mom about the pitching a few days ago and it was brought up that we might just be missing the leadership of Cookie. He was a great mentor to the young uns. So maybe if Finley can do that, but I don’t see it happening.
Well, to be honest, there isn’t much in the way of pitching. Maybe Colon could be had from the White Sox. But the Angels won’t pay his salary. There is only one really good free agent at the end of the season - Kevin Millwood. I would really like it if they signed him. The real pitching comes at the end of 2004. I don’t see the Angels seriously contending again until 2005-2006 at the earliest since there’s no realistic way of getting the money and pitching help needed. Sigh.
I still think the Cuddyer trade is a good one though. He’s a solid outfielder, and Salmon is going to need to be moved to DH in the next few seasons, so it would be good to have a guy out there, acclimated and ready to take his place.
One thing I will bet on is that if we continue to stink it up like we have been, Arte is gonna make some changes. He doesn’t strike me as someone who likes to lose.
Cuddyer could be ok if we can get him for a song. I just don’t want to see us deplenish the farm system. Cause if we do, we will be back at the bottom for many years–think Tigers.
I woulda rather have seen Arte lower the prices of soda or ice cream rather than beer. Anaheim has alot of kids at every game, I have heard it is the most in the majors but don’t have the stats for that.
So how many GMs will start to use computers in the selection of their draft picks, especially after Beane’s book and that article in SI.
Check out Sele’s scintillating statistics in the playoffs (when one’s performance counts the most):
SEASON TEAM W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
1998 ___ Texas Rangers 0 1 6.00 1 1 0 0 0 — 6.0 8 4 4 2 0 1 4
1999 ___ Texas Rangers 0 1 5.40 1 1 0 0 0 0 5.0 6 4 3 0 0 5 3
2000 ___ Seattle Mariners 0 1 3.38 2 2 0 0 0 0 13.1 12 5 5 2 0 3 5
2001 ___ Seattle Mariners 0 3 4.50 3 3 0 0 0 0 12.0 16 12 6 3 1 4 5
Career Totals 0 6 4.46 7 7 0 0 0 — 36.1 42 25 18 7 1 13 17
Bottom line: Between 1998 and 2001 Sele was 69-35 during the regular season, with an ERA of 4.28 and a .663 winning-percentage. Those are nice numbers. In those same four seasons Sele was 0-6 in the playoffs with an ERA of 4.46 and a .000 winning-percentage. Those numbers suck, especially if we disregard the one decent game (a no-decision for Sele) Sele pitched in the 2000 divisional series (in which case his ERA skyrockets).
Hmm. I do not think your numbers support your conclusion. Allow me to make a few observations.
Most importantly, 36 innings is pretty much worthless as sample size goes. Allow me to illustrate with hitting.
My very first thought was that Ichiro had an awful April and has had a terrific May. In April (111 at bats), he only hit .243. He’s not that bad. In May (98 at bats), he’s hit .388. He’s not really that good, either. Give him an entire season, and he’ll settle down somewhere between the two (say, .330). When drawing conclusions, one must make sure that the sample size is adequate and the sample is representative.
Note the rather frighteningly large 7 unearned runs given up in seven games. Part of that is no doubt Sele’s fault, but when your defense is spotting the opposition a run per game, you’re going to win fewer games.
The difference between a 4.28 ERA and a 4.46 ERA is, over the course of 36 innings, less than 1 run. Especially given the sample size, this really tells you squat.
In fact, Sele pitched almost as well in the post-season as he had in the regular season. He allowed an extra run every 36 innings. He let one more batter reach base every 9 innings. His strikeout rate was admittedly well down, from 6.43 to 4.21 K/9.
The truth is that Sele wasn’t a whole lot more than an average pitcher during the regular season, either (his ERA+ for those 4 years ranged from 102 to 117). He had a pretty darned good record in large part because he had pretty darned good run support. But to say that he pitches a lot worse in the post-season than he does in the regular season is to pretty much ignore the objective evidence.
Sorry to pick on you, by the way, but people make sweeping judgments based on extremely limited information is one of my pet peeves. This tends to be the same sort of idiocy that leads people to say that they wouldn’t want Ted Williams on their team during the postseason because magically, once the leaves changed colors, he stopped being the greatest hitter that ever lived and turned into just another random schmuck who couldn’t hit his weight.
All of us up here in Seattle were laughing up our sleeves when the Angels acted like their acquisition of Sele from the Mariners meant they were getting a valuable player. Sure, we said. Enjoy his fine work. Yes, we certainly have, indeedy-poo.
Aaron Sele is my second cousin. Not that I take it personally, I hardly know the guy, only met him once, after a game in KC. However, since his contract is making my grandfathers’ brothers’ childrens’ family quite rich, I do like to see him succeed.
His ERA has been abominable this season, but so has most of the staff. The Angels play in an offense-heavy division, teams that can generate runs from the top of the order to the bottom. You think Anaheim’s pitching is a problem, the fans have really got a complaint up in Seattle. Seattle’s ace starter is checking in with a 5.++ ERA.
Not at all. Kim’s goat status in the '01 Series is undeserved. He was left in ridiculously long, long after it was obvious he had nothing left; by the time he gave up the homer in Game 5 he’d thrown a hundred pitches in two days. He is a good pitcher.
Kim isn’t a choker. Rather, he will fail in the playoffs because he will be wearing a Red Sox uniform.
Garcia and Moyer are both done. The M’s better hope Pineiro and Meche are both for real and ready to play because if not they’re going to have a long, hard decade. You look at the guys they’ve got playing now and none of them are going to be around in 3, 4 years.
Aaron Sele does suck. He was pretty bad last year too, as I recall. He just got worn down, I think.
