Ack! What to do when your SO belongs in Etiquette Hell?

In My Humble Opinion
61

[QUOTE=NailBunny]
Could be worse. My husband was, for quite a long period of time, interested in going into mortuary work. To this day, he’s been known to come out, at dinner with family, with how long it takes to cremate a body/various embalming techniques/etc. He’s been kicked by me under the table so many times I think he probably doesn’t even feel it anymore. :smiley:
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HAH! I’m the queen of this. “Do you know what it sounds like when you cut off a rats head with a pair of office scissors?” “Who wants to know about pig surgery?” Luckily, BF’s parents don’t speak much of the English. But I AM dressed appropriately when I speak of the rat death camp.

62

[QUOTE=Maus Magill]
Let us know how that works out for him.

Seriously. How is he planning on dressing. If he’s planning on dressing like a schlub, that’s one thing. If he’s planning on at least dressing nicely, then the other guests would assume that financial constraints are at work.
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He’s falling back on the “I’m an academic! The rules are different for us!” debate strategy - for the defense and the job interviews, I mean. And he may very well be right, I don’t really know.

He never dresses like a slob, even at home, but he’s not current on fashion, either (neither am I, really). He rarely wears jeans, and only when appropriate. He’s more of a khakis and courdory kind of guy, with boring solid color tees and mock turtlenecks, and those upiquitous unironed button ups over them. If I can even talk him into a sport jacket over a nice mock turtleneck for the wedding, I’d be okay with it. Not thrilled, but okay. It’d be a little Don Johnson circa 1985, but I’d take it!

63

Here’s another tact to try:

Ditch him and pick me up on your way to Mexico. I would be happy to wear a suit for you. :wink: And, a weekend in the sun wouldn’t hurt my feelings, either.

64

[QUOTE=wolfman]
Ah yes, let’s continue this crap where we can all show off our wealth but demonstrating that we can afford to waste money on clothes only meant to be worn once a decade. The true value of a person is in their clothes after all, and we don’t want younger generations to get the idea that they are supposed to judge people on anything but apperance.
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I understand what you’re trying to say, but you’re coming off as an angry and socially awkward teenager here. It seems that you just don’t get it. It’s not about flaunting wealth, it’s about showing respect for your fellow guests as well as yourself. Even if you only wear it once every ten years (assuming you keep your boyish figure and the suit doesn’t go out of style), that’s still four to six times you’ll need one. And honestly, you’ll need it way more often than that.

I bought my suit about 11 years ago. Perry Ellis, off the rack, $100. Quite a steal, actually. There have been many occasions where I was glad I made the investment. The one that sticks out was at a girlfriend’s mother’s funeral. At the time I wasn’t rolling in money, and I had little time to shop. It was VERY important to GF that I attend the funeral, and important that I dress appropriately. I didn’t have to think about what I was going to wear, I already owned it. It made a difficult time a bit easier.

A man should know a good florist, be able to hide porn quickly, and own a suit and perhaps a tux. That’s just the way life is.

65

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
He’s falling back on the “I’m an academic! The rules are different for us!”
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Hmm. My ex is an academic. She owns a little black dress.

She once took me to a dinner where everyone was an academic. Every single guy wore a tie and jacket. So much for that excuse.

66

[QUOTE=Aangelica]
Okay, now I’m sort of embarassed. I don’t know that I’ve ever been anyone’s hero before. Do I get a cape? I think I could really look hot in a cape!
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I believe this depends on whether the invitation specifies “Superhero Casual” or “Superhero Black Tie”.

67

Who’s being selfish here?
Case 1. I wear something comfortable to an happy event and enjoy myself, effect on you: absolutely none.

Case 2: I wear some stupid confining piece of crap and am miserable. Effect on you, none unless you get some masturbatory fascist kick out of forced conformity.

68

No it’s not about respect. It’s about showing off wealth. Respect is in deeds and actions, not appearances. It is a pathetic cheapening of to whole Idea of respect to associate it with something as worthless as person appearance.

69

I dunno - is there something inherently wrong with me? It wouldn’t even occur to me to tell anyone what to wear to an event to which I had invited them. I’d consider that the height of offensive rudeness.

Edit - I’ll let the overstatement stand, though on reviewing this post I am left wondering what “inoffensive rudeness” would be.

70

[QUOTE=wolfman]
No it’s not about respect. It’s about showing off wealth. Respect is in deeds and actions, not appearances. It is a pathetic cheapening of to whole Idea of respect to associate it with something as worthless as person appearance.
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If I am making proper sense of this mess, then you are saying that the deed of putting on formal clothes is not a form of respect? :confused:

71

[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
If I am making proper sense of this mess, then you are saying that the deed of putting on formal clothes is not a form of respect? :confused:
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No cause that is a pointless and worthless deed. Respect should be much more than the pointless gestures it has been reduced to.

72

[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
If I am making proper sense of this mess, then you are saying that the deed of putting on formal clothes is not a form of respect? :confused:
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Why would that be inherently a form of respect?

To me, the respect is in celebrating important occasions with close friends. I suppose it’s arrogant to say “I’m here, isn’t that enough?” in some way, but if my presence is not welcome in and of itself, the person should refrain from inviting me. I won’t be offended, and I have no desire to mess up the decor.

73

[QUOTE=PaulParkhead]
I dunno - is there something inherently wrong with me? It wouldn’t even occur to me to tell anyone what to wear to an event to which I had invited them. I’d consider that the height of offensive rudeness.

Edit - I’ll let the overstatement stand, though on reviewing this post I am left wondering what “inoffensive rudeness” would be.
[/QUOTE]

Then don’t think of it as telling people what to wear. Consider that the invitation is telling you what everyone *else * will be wearing. Except the dashing non-conformists who are above all that manners and civilization crap.

74

[QUOTE=wolfman]
No it’s not about respect. It’s about showing off wealth.
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You remind me of the guy with the pathetic nerdy haircut, dirty Led Zeppelin tee shirt, and glasses held together with Scotch tape, whining about why he doesn’t have a girlfriend. “People should just like me for who I am!” It’s misplaced idealism. It’s idealism that can hold you back. The real world just doesn’t work like that.

And no, it’s not about showing wealth. I’m wearing my suit to a party on Sunday, not to show off my wealth, but because I want to look nice. Being that I’ll probably be one of only a couple of guys there that is not a surgeon, I think it will be plain to everyone that I’m one of the least wealthy people there.

I’m going to rub their elitist bastard faces in it, though. I’m going to shave. I might even go so far as to shower. That’ll show 'em!

75

[QUOTE=wolfman]
No it’s not about respect. It’s about showing off wealth. Respect is in deeds and actions, not appearances. It is a pathetic cheapening of to whole Idea of respect to associate it with something as worthless as person appearance.
[/QUOTE]

Well, it’s also about making the experience pleasant and comfortable for everyone. Someone planning a wedding (whether it’s a formal, destination or theme thing) generally goes to great pains to ensure that the event has a certain feel. It’s like having any party- the guest list is as important to the success of the event as anything else is. So, if you bring people along who are dressed inappropriately, or sulking, or dirty, or swearing loudly at the grooms mother, or drinking heavily and vomiting all over, they change everyone else’s experience by a certain amount. If everyone participated inappropriately, it would be mayhem. Obviously, not dressing up isn’t on the same plane as some of the other disruptive behaviors I’ve listed, but it still changes things, and if everyone did it, it would be noticeable. I’d feel bad if the bride and groom looked hideously out of place because EVERYONE decided not to dress up, so I dress up for these things. I really don’t think it’s about wealth as much as contributing to the success of the event.

76

[QUOTE=Solfy]
Then don’t think of it as telling people what to wear. Consider that the invitation is telling you what everyone *else * will be wearing. Except the dashing non-conformists who are above all that manners and civilization crap.
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Well no, I mean, I’m not really all that interested in what everyone else would be wearing. Why should I be? It’s their business, not mine.

People who care about me know how I dress, and “nonconformist” is a very weird way to describe me personally. People who care more about the way the room looks in their pictures presumably don’t invite me. Luckily, most people I know aren’t that crass.

77

[QUOTE=Solfy]
Then don’t think of it as telling people what to wear. Consider that the invitation is telling you what everyone *else * will be wearing. Except the dashing non-conformists who are above all that manners and civilization crap.
[/QUOTE]

Such a one as that lost my interest back when I was single. Sure, it was July, and hot. However, they were informed that their roommate’s girlfriend was bringing over a friend to introduce to them to see if perhaps she might consider the idea of getting to know them, and perhaps eventually date them. He didn’t even bother to comb his hair, or put on a shirt. I was introduced to a wild haired, shirtless fellow, who never saw me again after that day. If you cannot be bothered to groom yourself and put on even a tank top to meet a lady, you do not get graced with that lady’s prescence. Simple.

78

[QUOTE=tdn]
You remind me of the guy with the pathetic nerdy haircut, dirty Led Zeppelin tee shirt, and glasses held together with Scotch tape, whining about why he doesn’t have a girlfriend.
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Great response. My objection is that Clothing elitism leads to a bunch of judgemental crap, and you prove it by resorting to a personal attack when I say I don’t conform. Thanks for the help.

79

[QUOTE=wolfman]
Who’s being selfish here?
Case 1. I wear something comfortable to an happy event and enjoy myself, effect on you: absolutely none.
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There obviously is an effect on me, be it ever so minimal. You have conveyed – through that nonverbal communication I was talking about – that you are slob who does not care enough about the event to dress apporpriately and who puts his own comfort over showing respect to the occasion. If I am only another guest, the effect on me is that I think you are a boor, or you live in poverty, or you are a boor living in poverty. If I’m the host, I’m irked at your lack of effort, since it not only says something about you, but it also says something about how little you care about me.

Effect on me: You have conveyed to me as your host that you care enough about my special event to dress up for it. And your misery is your own fault, if in fact that’s what you experience from something as minor as wearing a suit for a few hours. It’s made of cotton or wool, not barbed wire.

Again, your comfort and happiness are not the chief concerns. This is not your event, and it’s not about you. You want to wear only a pair of oversized basketball shorts roomy enough for you to scratch your balls freely, throw your own party.

I’m curious as to what part of non-verbal communication is giving you such trouble. I assume you understand that (a) respect, or lack thereof, is something that can be communicated or conveyed from one person to another; and (b) we are able to convey things without actually talking. If both of those are true – and they are, inarguably so – it follows that you can communicate respect, or disrespect, nonverbally. There are lots of ways to do so: You refuse to stand for an anthem. You refuse to shake someone’s hand. You spit on something (or someone). You go to an event where the general expectations are that people will be dressed up and nicely groomed, and you don’t bother to meet those expectations.

Personal appearance is how people who don’t know each other well evaluate each other. Are you a hippy or a preppie? Are you a biker or a cop? How you hold yourself, how you groom yourself, and how you dress will convey a wealth of information about you. And make no mistake: People will judge you based on what they see and what they think you are saying (communicating) by how you allow yourself to be perceived. Is appearance everything? Obviously not. But it sure as hell is something, something important enough to affect where you live, where you work, who you date. Anyone who thinks personal appearance is worthless is a fool, plain and simple.

80

[QUOTE=tdn]
You remind me of the guy with the pathetic nerdy haircut, dirty Led Zeppelin tee shirt, and glasses held together with Scotch tape, whining about why he doesn’t have a girlfriend. “People should just like me for who I am!” It’s misplaced idealism. It’s idealism that can hold you back. The real world just doesn’t work like that.

And no, it’s not about showing wealth. I’m wearing my suit to a party on Sunday, not to show off my wealth, but because I want to look nice. Being that I’ll probably be one of only a couple of guys there that is not a surgeon, I think it will be plain to everyone that I’m one of the least wealthy people there.

I’m going to rub their elitist bastard faces in it, though. I’m going to shave. I might even go so far as to shower. That’ll show 'em!
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Fair points, I guess, but what if, like me, one looks like an idiot in a suit? I look like one of those shortarsed Glasgow gangsters who makes his money running protection rackets and harassing the local bookmakers. Even if others may disagree, I feel like a turd, and that colours the whole event for me.

If I need to wear a suit to work, OK, I guess. I’m being paid. I wouldn’t choose to spend my time fixing laser printers or explaining to people why a little knowledge of VBA is a bad thing, but someone is paying me to do it.