That is definitely a concern. I have noticed that since I started taking the medication, I do have more anxiety than I used to, but it hasn’t been too bad. Actually, thinking back, the doctor was concerned enough about it that she asked several times if I suffered from anxiety, because it might make it worse, but I didn’t think so.
What does concern me significantly more is that I have noticed that it seems to make it much easier for me to become irritated/annoyed, even by ridiculously stupid things like people just walking into the room, so I have to bite back any instinctive reaction and and tell myself “Getting angry about (random trivial thing that shouldn’t bother me and never did before) isn’t your normal reaction, it’s a side-effect, so don’t act on it” a lot.
I’m not sure of any online tests. The one my husband is talking about is some kind of formal test that can only be administered by psychologists. I’ll have to ask him what it’s called.
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That is definitely a concern. I have noticed that since I started taking the medication, I do have more anxiety than I used to, but it hasn’t been too bad. Actually, thinking back, the doctor was concerned enough about it that she asked several times if I suffered from anxiety, because it might make it worse, but I didn’t think so.
What does concern me significantly more is that I have noticed that it seems to make it much easier for me to become irritated/annoyed, even by ridiculously stupid things like people just walking into the room, so I have to bite back any instinctive reaction and and tell myself “Getting angry about (random trivial thing that shouldn’t bother me and never did before) isn’t your normal reaction, it’s a side-effect, so don’t act on it” a lot.
[/QUOTE]
I talked to my Aunt tonight because her husband has severe ADD (like, the worst I’ve ever seen.) She says he gets crazy aggressive on Adderall. She’s also been taking his meds in very small doses (which is fucking terrible and I’ve lectured her about this so don’t get me started) and says her anxiety has gone through the roof too.
Honestly, I’m going to try to stay away from meds. There have to be behavioral interventions I can try.
You mention that you have difficulty concentrating because trains of thought keep crashing into your mind*. Am I correct that those intruding thoughts tend to center around past-related pain or future-related fears rather than neutral/positive things and the present/near-present?
Being sucked into tasks for hours may be so appealing to you because you are engaging different parts of your brain which provides relief by disrupting the self-reinforcing loop of intrusive thoughts.
If my description is off, I don’t have much to add. If it rings a bell, I may have more research suggestions.
Medication: Adderall is amphetamine i.e.: speed. It has the disadvantages of considerable tolerance, withdrawal, dependence and anxiety increase. Modafinil is much preferable. Being on Vyvanse (which is much like Adderall) made me jumpy and switching to Modafinil was an improvement on all fronts.
It’s usually stuff in the future. Could be as simple as, ‘‘Shit, I need to pay that bill’’ or as complicated as, ''What, indeed, is the nature of existence?" I just spend a lot of time in my own head. Sometimes I like it in there, and sometimes it’s hell, but either way it feels like this endless void. I spend way more time wandering around in there than doing virtually anything else.
For example (I swear to you this really happened)
During our discussion about whether I might have ADD, my husband was talking about how clients he treats who have both ADD and anxiety disorder tend to have anxiety that doesn’t follow a specific pattern because their random thoughts lead them to be anxious about random things. I reminded him that I was diagnosed with Anxiety Disorder Not Otherwise Specified, which basically means anxiety that doesn’t follow a specific pattern. So then he starts talking about ‘‘inattentive anxiety.’’
I said, ''What’s inattentive anxiety?"
I have no goddamned idea what his answer was, because in my head I was having a future conversation with my therapist about the conversation we were having right then.
Of course, when I asked him to repeat himself, we laughed our asses off.
ETA: I have a friend on Vynvanse. He likes it.
I know how you feel. My problem is without structure I feel there are too many interesting possibilities to choose from. Then instead of doing one of those I go play a game. What’s called? It may be ADD. I also think that minds aren’t necessarily wired for the demands of the modern age.
Technology definitely exploits our neurological weaknesses. Hell, places like Facebook are a goddamn Skinner box. Press the lever, get a treat, ad infinitum.
It’s hard enough for ‘‘normal’’ people to combat that, much less people with atypical brain wiring.
You mention being highly motivated by what other people think of you. The DMN is highly involved in the sense of self & other people and self & past/future.
Well, yeah, I know, if I ever go to prison I plan on volunteering to teach the Computer Skills courses, but thinking that there isn’t is supposed to be motivational!You weren’t supposed to tell her!
If you want to know more, I can go on about that kind of research, my own speculative reflections and empirical experimentations into, shall we say, cutting edge antidepressants, anxiolytics and (probably) PTSD treatments*.
The DMN is the main hub network of the brain so it’s quite possible that hyperactivity is negative in some sub-units and hypoactivity is negative in other sub-units. The experiments which lead to those conclusions (or their summaries) may simply lack specificity.
Note the use of the word “across” which can mean “in every spot” or “in many spots throughout” which isn’t the same thing. Also, there may be different sorts of connectivities.
*Don’t worry moderators, nothing illegal will be explicitly advocated.
MichaelEmouse, that is indeed fascinating. I think you have mentioned this before, right? In another thread, about cryonics or something? Or am I thinking of somebody else?
I can’t speak for Spice Weasel but I would love to hear any more info you can share.
I have, you’re correctly thinking of me. If you click on the default mode network modulation link and go through the different means of modulation, you’ll remember what it was about.
I will provide a substantive reply in the following days. Thinking about this stuff takes it out of me so I’m not in a state to do it today.
I can identify with much of what the OP says. It sounds a lot like ADD to me, though I was never formally diagnosed. An ADD specialist did recommend to me that I read “Driven To Distraction” and I have to admit that I cried when the book was over because for the first time in my life I felt like someone understood me. I was 32 years old and that book helped facilitate the changing of my life. I spent a couple of years on the ADD Forums online too, learning from the experience of others in the real world and relating mine.
I think I am probably ADD overfocused, and my wife seems to be ADD inattentive. I have an abundance of attention and notice everything, which is it’s own problem. My wife just doesn’t notice anything. It really helped teach me that there’s good and bad to most things in life. We aren’t on any meds, we live a life that probably allows us to work within who we are. From what I gather meds are just a tool, and I wanted to see if we could manage our lives with other tools and then if meds were needed we’d do that. It’s been seven years now since I first learned about adult ADD/ADHD and life is good, not perfect, but it’s never perfect anyway.
Best wishes on your journey. Everybody is different. Ultimately the goal is happiness, not perfection.
I think when my husband brought up this issue I panicked, because so much of my mother’s abuse growing up was centered on this idea that there was something wrong with me, that I (she believed willfully) did not pay attention, that I was fucking up over and over out of pure maliciousness, and I have internalized that to a great degree. Every time I fall short of my own expectations I get down on myself for it.
So my initial reaction to this was, ‘‘Oh, what if I’m not actually a terrible person? There really was something wrong with me beyond just being of poor character.’’ (Obviously, I don’t always think that of myself anymore, it just hits sometimes.) And then it’s like, ''Oh, what if this means I won’t let my husband down anymore like I did my Mom?"
Yesterday was a really, really emotional day when I felt like I was struggling to get anyone to take me seriously. And my therapist was like, ‘‘No, I don’t give a shit whether you have ADD or not. There is no justification for the abuse you went through. And you have to accept yourself.’’ And I talked to my husband and realized I was really projecting this profound unhappiness onto him, assuming I was some great burden like I was to my mother. And that’s not the case. He wants to help me relieve my stress about these behavioral issues but overall we are both happy.
After my seizures I had a housekeeper come here twice a month to help me keep the house under control, and it took so much stress off of me because even at my best I struggle with housekeeping. I just canceled it this week because ‘‘it’s too much money.’’ (We can afford it, I just feel guilty spending money on it when it could be going toward savings, or something.) I feel like I should be able to handle it, but I struggle with it, so… why fight it? We are both happier when the house is clean. The house is clean when we have housekeepers and it’s not when I’m wrestling with it myself. That’s not my ideal, but it is my reality. So I have to hire someone to keep my house clean, so what?
I’m just thinking, ''What if it’s okay to just be good enough?" In all honesty, I don’t really know if I want to go through a whole battery of neurological testing right now. This is the first time in a while I’ve even been able to get my depression and anxiety under control with the proper medication. Do I need a formal diagnosis to get to work on these issues behaviorally? It might be helpful to rule anything else out, especially given the seizure activity, but… god, what if it all boils down to the fact that nobody’s perfect?
I picked up that book, and parts of it did make me cry – mostly the stuff about the parental frustration – but the stuff about getting in trouble at school, hyperactivity, etc. I could not relate to at all.
Then I picked up a booklet on Amazon about ADHD Inattentive, which specifically mentioned Driven to Distraction as an often misleading characterization of ADHD Inattentive.
Inattentive type:
-Introverted (Me)
-Quiet (Me)
-Daydreamer/space cadet/constantly lost in own head (Me Me Me)
-Hard to follow verbal directions, poor sense of direction (So Me)
-Avoids taking on social/work responsibilities that will add to stress. Major problem at work ‘‘things are too fast paced’’ (slow processing speed) - (Yup)
-Develops professional specialty that allows them to avoid all the stuff they are bad at - (Me, stating for the hundredth time how grant writing is the perfect job for me because I don’t have to do anything but sit behind a desk and write
-Fidgets as a result of anxiety, not impulsivity
-Selective attention (vs. inability to sustain all attention)
-Walks into a room and wonders what they are doing (Literally just forgot I was looking for a fork after I pulled my food out of the microwave. Opened the cooking utensil drawer (not even the silverware drawer) and wondered why I was staring at it.)
I lost another day today, but I did my best to pay attention (heh) to how I was losing it.
Things I planned to do today:
Work on my novel
Do the dishes
Do the laundry (shit, just forgot my husband asked me to wash something for him.)
Things that I did:
Friday ritual of walk and sushi with FIL, came home.
Two hours in the bathtub on my cell phone.
Countless more hours online, messaging and Straight Dope
Had the idea to set my alarm so that I had to switch tasks after alarm went off
Thirty minutes later, realized I had forgotten to set alarm
Set alarm for 10 minutes
Was in the middle of a post when the alarm went off, resolved to finish post
Realized an hour later that I forgot the alarm went off
Started reading ‘‘Driven to Distraction.’’ The book made brief mention of Inattentive type
Immediately switched to a book about inattentive type
Yeah, so. Not loud, not boisterous or disruptive, energetic, impulsive, or anything of the stereotypes. But so obviously ADD.
Neither of us have a formal diagnosis and we’ve both worked on things. You have to find what works for you in various situations.
For example, if hiring a cleaner helps, and you can do so, then hire a cleaner. Leave the “shoulds” (I should clean it myself) behind. Should is a very moralistic term. It means very little, as if somehow you’re a bad person if you don’t do something that you “should” according to some unwritten rule. Oh, did I mention that my wife and I actually clean houses? By hiring a cleaner you’re helping someone out there support themselves. You’re helping them have a place in this world and they feel important for helping you. It’s a win-win situation. We see so many people (mainly women) feel ashamed for hiring us, at first. Eventually they love it and love us and can’t wait for us to come clean.
“Good enough” means what exactly? Not much. You, as presently constituted, are enough. You’re enough to merit love and some measure of respect as a human being with hopes and dreams as well as shortcomings and failures.
A diagnosis of something like this just let’s you know that you’re truly doing your best right now and have a battle going on in your brain. You aren’t some failure or loser, in fact you’re probably pretty damn special for having made it this far before finding out that you have such issues behind the scenes. Good for you.
There are things that you’ll never be good at. My wife struggles a lot more than I do with those things that most people would see as making you an adult. I’m highly responsible with a fantastic memory who notices everything. She still struggles mightily in certain areas but has developed systems over time that have helped her tremendously. I will admit that sometimes it drives me absolutely insane and that I have a hard time trusting her with certain aspects of life or our business. I just can’t. As time goes by I’ve been able to trust her more but it is what it is. It does put a heavy load on me at times. Then again, there are things that she’s better at than I am.
There’s something that I had bookmarked that is now private but there was a video of a speech given by Dan Sullivan about “The Gap”. The gist is this. Most people look at where they are today and the distance they need to go in order to get to where they think they should be or want to be. That’s “the gap”, and it can make us feel horrible about ourselves along our journey. However, we’re completely ignoring that place between where we are and where we STARTED. Never forget that. Look at how far you’ve come and focus on that, not on how far you’ve got to go.
My wife and I grew up in a cult. One way of controlling us was to keep us feeling like we were never enough. My wife struggles daily with that. She does it in beating herself down. I do it in constant striving. Neither is healthy, and we’re working hard on changing that, so I understand that feeling of letting people down. Heck, we left the cult last year in the ultimate way of “letting them down” and now we’re both shunned by former friends and family forever.
Driven To Distraction wasn’t the greatest for the inattentive type I guess, but if I remember correctly there weren’t a lot of great books about it. I’m glad you’re finding some. You will likely find great help on the ADD Forums should you choose to join there. I’m not there anymore, but you can learn a lot. Just don’t be one of the negative nellies on there that just whines and hates their life. Unfortunately some there remain stuck exactly where they are forever in a circle jerk of misery, which is why I left, but for a time it served me very well. You can find resources and such, discuss your personal life, etc.
Nothing has to change overnight. It doesn’t sound like anything is on fire here, unless of course you forgot that the stove was on and need to run into the kitchen (eek!). Take your time, learn, and do things at your pace, but be sure that you do things and are aiming at progress. Progress is the aim, not perfection. Heck, in the Bible (which I no longer believe in) only one out of three perfect humans made it through life that way, lol, and the one that did was the son of god. The original pair failed. Not good odds there. So don’t expect it of yourself.
When I read your OP, I immediately recognized myself in some of your descriptions. Keep in mind that I am not really qualified to give any advice and that I’ve never been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD.
I struggle a lot with being inattentative, with my mind wandering, often during a conversation, and I’m poor at maintaining structures. As an artist, I have to create most work-structures myself, which can be a struggle, depending on the scope of the work and my frame of mind. One thing that helped me keep several things in mind at once without drifting away, while also gradually internalizing and remembering that information, was to make my calendar, chores, work documents, possible experiments, possible solutions and ideas much bigger and intrusive. Before, I’d jot something down in my notebook, or in a document on my computer and forget about it. Now I cover certain walls in my home and studio with paper sheets containting short descriptions, pieces of important information, reminders and informative drawings, written or drawn big enough to be understood from the other side of the room. Like giant post-its. Every glance gives a reminder of where you stand and what to consider, and depending on how you arrange it, what is most important at that point in time. It’s also a nice opportunity to get creative.
I don’t know if this could help you or not, but it might be worth considering.
Also, regarding drifting off into your own head during a conversation: It really helps to just ask for a repeat when you snap out of it. If someone thinks it’s rude, just say sorry and tell them you’re a daydreamer.
Anyway, good luck! You’ll probably figure something out that works for you and your husband.
