It is standard to note whether or not the child is on medication. It is absolutely not standard to to tell the parent to get the kid on drugs and suggest if they don’t it is their fault that they are destined to a life of crime and jail.
I suspect that she hadn’t had to deal with the problem for a couple of months and was breathing a sigh of relief when she was blind sided by it cropping up again.
I didn’t say that it was standard for the school psychologist to be the dictator of the child’s welfare. Please don’t take what I say out of context. Thanks.
I did say it had turned into more of a vent than anything.
Emotionally, it was the aftermath of my outwardly remaining calm and outlining the consequences to him and dealing with his reaction and putting him to bed and only then having my moment of parental doubt when I really should have put down the tablet and cried into my pillow instead.
No, he is not a constant klepto. We do watch him, he knows the limits and I reinforce them, and I reinforce the rules verbally daily. Last stealing incident was March, before that was January. I talk to the teacher regularly to discuss his school work and his actions at school, NOT the psychologist (who I should note is no longer there as of a couple months ago).
When she tossed me ‘he must be on medication or he’ll drop out and join a gang’ I was under the impression that he was doing well in school after having a rough go in Kindergarten which seemed to have been a maturity thing, and apparently he was doing much better and it was a maturity thing in addition to the adhd and even now compared to the start of the year there have been improvements but still work to do.
I guess the main point of posting in the first place was to look for some validation (that I’m not a complete fucking idiot for a mother who doesn’t deserve to have her child) and that I am on the right path, even if there are hiccups, and maybe some suggestions or ideas or experiences other people have had with coping and helping their child to meet their potential and not end up a high school drop out in a gang, or in jail, or dead.
And I am now going to go to bed and rest and maybe that will help me be clearer and more emotionally stable myself since it’s been a long few days at work combined with a whirlwind family visit.
I think you are wrong here. A seven year old does not really have a concept of 300$. They might have a concept of 1 dollar, maybe 2 dollars, if they are pretty advanced 20$. After that everything is just a lot. Most of us stole something in and around that age and we were punished and we learned. For kids with ADHD the learning takes a little longer, and he has been learning it. 4 months is a long time for a 7 year old. He should have to apologize in person to the aunt and the money needs to be paid back, possibly with interest, but then it is time to move on.
Sorry, that is how I read what you typed. I apologize for misunderstanding
When I was 7 years old I definitely knew how much money $300 was. My parents gave me $10 per week if I did extra chores. I was perfectly aware of how long it took to make that sort of money. I think you are giving a 7-year-old too little credit.
If anything, a kid should overvalue money, compared to say, a teenager, who actually has some exposure to the real world and how much real things cost.
At some point during my childhood (maybe around age 10), I found out that my parents had just spent $85,000 on a boat, and I was very indignant that they had refused my request for a $20 loan to buy the LEGO set I wanted before we left on vacation. At age 7 I figured a car cost maybe $500, $1000 if it’s really super nice, like a Ferrari or something. Stealing $300 would have been just unconscionable.
Is there any way you can have the cops scare the shit out of him? It worked for me when I was 9 (and had been stealing for years, and not getting caught). It helped that the town cop who lectured me in front of everyone in the convenience store, and then drove me to my parent’s house, was also the father of two extremely popular, athletic twin girls in my grade. I was mortified, and I never stole anything again. It wasn’t worth the embarrassment.
And yes, tougher consequences all around. I like the idea of giving up one of his possessions of the same value. That’ll really drive home how not-okay it is for him to see something and take it.
I would be really upset and concerned too, if I were in your shoes, flutterby. And no, I don’t think you’re a bad parent because my parents did okay and certainly raised me to never, ever steal… and I was an unapologetic thief at your son’s age, as well as doing all sorts of other bad things. I hope he grows out of this fast. I have ADD-PI, and was hyperactive too when I was little, and no punishment my parents thought up was very effective. I turned out fine in the end. Around age 14 or 15 (puberty… I was late) a switch flipped and I went from being an immature, often impulsive troublemaker to being emotionally mature for my age. Thank goodness.
The right counselor could really help you guys. Not just him, but you too. You sound really stressed out with the situation… someone to talk to can help you think of ways to manage, how to implement possible solutions, etc. They might also be able to get through to him, or help you get through to him, how serious this is.
The chores and paying back are in addition to losing things like TV, games, an equivalent toy. I’m not sitting him down and having a stern talking to then make him do a five minute chore to reimburse whatever and that’s it.
As to verifying the charity thing, the box is in the classroom, the teacher sees who puts what in, in that time frame he put change in that we didn’t give to him.
This is part of why I instituted an allowance, he will have his own money to buy things with and help curb this (hopefully), unfortunately it’s just getting geared up now.
Now I really am going to bed.
Actual kleptomania is a compulsion to steal and doesn’t have any regard to profit. This is a key element in diagnosing it, rather what the person is doing with the lifted goods.
The problem with stealing is that you only know when he was caught. How do you really know when he stole last and got away with it?
I agree with the poster that he may steal from the wrong person and wind up getting thumped, even at such a young age.
You also have to look at other possibilities. For instance, is he stealing just for him? Maybe this makes him cool to other little kids. Maybe he is having trouble with other kids and is using the theft to “buy friends.” Maybe someone is putting him up to it. For all you know it could be another kid, he admires and wants approval of. Or even a bad joke by older kids.
It could be a form of revenge. “I know Mommy gets mad when I steal. She sent me to bed with no TV 'cause I didn’t clean my room. Well I’ll get even with her by stealing.”
You need to find a therapist that is separate from the school system, as they have a vested interest in just making the behaviour stop.
The kid has to realize that theft has consequences that are unpleasant for him. The problem is if you can’t enforce them 24/7, they’re of little help.
If the kid has a true problem this isn’t going to matter as he won’t be able to stop it without proper attention.
Egads, no one thinks you’re horrible! You asked for opinions and we gave them. 
I think the fact that you’re not one of those, “Oh my child is PERFECT and it’s everyone else’s fault!” parents is key here, because I’ve seen too many of those!
I disagree. My son is six and he knows that $300 is a lot of money. He has an allowance and goes grocery shopping with me and understands the concept of numbers and quantities.
He’s never taken money from me - just food, which drives me batty as when things are rough the last thing I need is to open the fridge to find that he swiped food (usually the goodies!) and then left it out on the counter or some such…or when he leaves lights on/things running or any other kind of ‘waste’. I remind him that things cost money (and no, I’m not freakishly frugal) and he ‘gets it’ now.
Last November, we were mugged. It freaked him out. To him, stealing money is the worst thing ever and this was pretty traumatic for a few weeks. Still, he’s never so much as taken a quarter from me. He picks up change from the floor/couch/car/wherever and hands it to me. I think it’s kind of cute, since I let him keep all spare change in the house but he asks anyway!
When you steal from someone, you are stealing more than one thing: you steal an object (in this case, money), an opportunity (to spend it), knowledge (from those who operate thinking the cash was lost and you didn’t steal it), and trust (as you just hurt another person).
Kind of a big deal. A kid who steals $300 at the age of seven signals a kid who needs some attention. And I don’t mean needs more positive attention, either.
That sounds terrible, you have my sympathies. I tried to find a relevant book on Amazon, and a quick search on kleptomania got some promising books.
Oh good god. Now people are diagnosing kleptomania on a 7 year old? She has a hard enough row to hoe without buying trouble.
He has ADHD. It is diagnosis given by a doctor who actually knows him. It also has some correlation to stealing. Moderate to severe ADHD can have a host of problematic behaviors. Sometimes these behaviors can be severe enough to lead to additional diagnosis if ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder) CD (Conduct disorder) (Which has as one of its diagnostic criteria, stealing). These disorders are seldom diagnosed before the age of 12, but there is a defined childhood-onset type of CD. Almost all of the people eventually (usually male) identified with these disorders have an earlier diagnosis of ADHD.
Kleptomania, on the other hand, is fairly closely related to OCD and although there are rare reports of onset as young as 5 the average onset is 35 to 40 and a higher percentage of women rather than men are more likely to be affected. Typically they take stuff that has little or no monetary value and they tend to horde it.
I stand by my belief that children as young as 7 have little concept of 300$ beyond it is a lot. Consider, he wanted to buy pizza with it. Unless he was planning on buying pizza for the school pizza in my house is not more than 40 bucks with tip and chicken wings. 40 bucks is a lot of money to a 7 year old too,and probably more than I should be spending. It also seems to depend on environment. I have many high school students who think nothing of getting mom to drop 130 bucks on tennis shoes but they think that 15 bucks is too much for school supplies. The scary part is that their moms go along with that thinking, but that is another argument.
double post
I don’t understand the reluctance to try out a diagnosis to see if it fits. A diagnosis is not a sentence; it is a piece of knowledge that allows us to think more clearly about a problem, by connecting it with other parts of the puzzle that might or might not fit. And usually, such a diagnosis gives pointers as to what might help. As such it is a lot more helpful then just saying someone is “too young for a diagnosis”, as if saying that is somehow defending the kid. If things stay as they are now, both flutterby and her son have a real problem.
Wikipedia was not very clear on a possible link of kleptomania with add, but maybe the books have more insight on that. What is interesting, to me, is that kleptomania is classified as an impulse disorder. So stressing the morality aspects of it (knowing that stealing is bad) won’t likely help in the long run.
But maybe it’s just me that wants to have background info if I am dealing with an psychological problem.
Stealing is not a diagnostic criteria of ADHD.
'tis the point.
I also disagree small children definitely know a hundred is A LOT. I worked at a cashier at a computer store over the holidays and a lot of parents would give their little kids and they’d count it out and the kid’s eyes would get wide when they hit one hundred dollars.
Then they’d give it to the kid, and tell him/her to give it to me, who would always say something like, “Wow, I never had this much money in my whole life.” They may not know the total concept, but they all understood the magic “hundred” mark.
In the OP case, the kid probably just grabbed the purse and took the wad of dough out, regardless of the amount. To me, the amount shows he isn’t aware of ramifications of his actions.
Obviously everyone is gonna miss a $300, but if he had taken $20 or $30 it might not be missed, the owner thinking, “Oh I lost a bill.”
The bottom line is you don’t know what the kid was thinking and when you get to the bottom of things like this, as I said, it’s important to get a neutral party, one not associated with the schools or the parent.
If cost is an issue, look on your county (if in the USA) website and find the health department. They often have referrals to low cost or sliding fee scales. Get a therapist the kid likes.
The thing is the mother is suffering, the school is suffering and the kid is suffering and everyone is upset and more interested in labels and blame. It doesn’t matter, look if the kid broke his arm, you take him to the hospital and get him fixed THEN you find out what’s went wrong and allowed him to break his arm. Then you start behaviour therapy to see to it he doesn’t do the stupid thing that caused him to break it.
It’s sad but the way of life is, outside of some sympathy, no one really cares about your problem, whether it’s a child or an adult or anyone else. So it’s up to the OP to DO something about it. Often it’s just a matter of not knowing where to start.
When my son was eight, he was at my house hanging out with a friend. My son told me that his friend took money (a few dollars) that I had left on a counter. I told the kid to get the hell outa my house. He went home and complained to his parents, who returned with the kid, demanding an explanation.
I told them what had happened. The kid actually still had the cash in his pocket. He never really denied taking it. His parents wanted me to accept the returned money and let bygones be bygones. I told them he could keep the money, and I didn’t want the little thief on my property. The kid seemed terrified.
Maybe your son needs to experience more harsh consequences to his actions?
I think the point that CitizenPained is trying to make, IMHO somewhat poorly, is that stealing is not symptomatic of ADHD. This is true, but the impulse control problems that are often present with ADHD could lower the threshold for stealing behaviors. However, I would be concerned about separate processes going on. That is, since many children with ADHD don’t steal, I wouldn’t just chalk up the stealing behavior as a consequence of ADHD.
It is false to say that these disorders are seldom diagnosed before 12. In particular, ODD is very commonly diagnosed in childhood, with a typical age of onset around age 8 and frequently much younger than that. It’s important to note that stealing is no more diagnostic of ODD than it is of ADHD. It’s also false to say that almost all of those with ODD or CD have a history of ADHD. It is true that we observe significantly elevated rates of ADHD given ODD, but at least half, if not the majority of youth with ODD will not have ADHD.
This is interesting, but kleptomania is quite different from OCD.
Seconding the “scared straight” option mentioned upthread. I actually was going to recommend it before I read someone else had. Is there a DARE officer at your kid’s school? Or do you have a cop in the family? Or anyone who’s former-military?
I think there is an officer at the school, none in the family and all former military aren’t exactly young anymore and have been long out.
I’ll figure something, he’s under punishment right now, we talked last night and is aware of his punishment and we have an appointment today with the pediatrician (set up months ago). Later this week with the in home counsellor and I’ll just keep working at it.
Thanks for the advice and ideas. I’m a lot calmer and able to think this morning than I was last night.