Adoption Records Should Be Open To Adoptees At Legal Age

Great Debates
41

As far as the reunion question goes…

I will not tell you that every reunion is perfect. It is not. A reunion is just like a rollercoaster…many ups and downs.
For me (personally) I left a long long paper trail for my son to find me and he did when he turned 18. Our reunion has gone very very well. I have much contact with him.

Here are some guidelines to expect from a reunion:
and before anyone flames me again I am NOT saying that ALL adoptees feel this way
1.) FANTASY: This begins at a very young age for the adoptee. Fantasies are hard to avoid when there’s so little info to go on; some are positive, some negative. Fantasies are not limited to the adoptee; bmoms have them. Conscious awareness of fantasies are limited and may not surface until long after reunion is underway.

Key: Fantasies are forever changed and altered by the realities of stage #2…First Encounters.

2.) FIRST ENCOUNTERS: Every encounter is different; most are civil; it’s a highly charged time of massive amounts of shared information; questions are finally answered; people ride on a euphoric high for days or weeks or months; but after all the questions are answered, then what? Who are we to each other? Where do we go from here? How do I incorporate you into my life? The third phase of the reunion begins with these questions.

3.) THE MORNING AFTER: First encounters can be super intimate, but when everything settles down, bfamily members can find themselves feeling as if they’ve just slept with a total stranger. In the roller coaster ride analogy, this is the big drop down and is unexpected. Bfamily members are blood relations, but socially and experientially strangers to each other. Differences are discovered and magnified (backgrounds, memories, values, religions, beliefs, etc.). This stage can have varying lengths depending on the individuals involved. It’s a time of examining expectations and struggling with defining the new relationships being formed. Feelings are confusing, complicated and surprising. These emotions can escalate and become overwhelming and paralyzing. When this happens, people often put up walls and back away. This begins stage four: Limbo.

4.) LIMBO: It’s one side who pulls away, leaving the other side to “tread on eggs” wondering what’s happening; adoptee or bmom can step back, but it’s rare for both to want distance; many, many issues are at the forefront. Key: When a person chooses limbo, what is really going on? Processing. Person needs time to sort out new emotions, work through the past, decide what he/she wants to have happen, set boundaries and define the relationship. Making demands on the person choosing limbo for a greater, closer relationship may only serve to widen the gap between adoptee and bmom.

5.) RECONCILIATION: Final stage without a definitive starting point; can start years after the first encounter; this is a solitary experience. Bmom and adoptee confront issues, deal with losses, and move on. Decisions are made about how the new person will be assimilated; choice may be made to have an ongoing relationship or continue on alone. Problems arise when the two sides choose different paths. This phase is continual and includes setting goals.

From the 1994 NY Triad Conference

42

Knowing your origins is not a fundamental right. No one, adopted or otherwise, has a right to their families’ medical records. Calling these things “rights” doesn’t make it so.

Think about birth fathers for a minute. No one has a right to know who their father is. Birth mothers can lie or not even not know who the father is. The wrong father can be but on a birth certificate or the father can be listed as “unknown” even for children who are not adopted. I would imagine that these things are even more common on the original certificates of adopted children. Since it is clear that you have no “right” to know who your father is I don’t see how you can have a “right” to know who your mother is. How can you justify the double standard? I don’t think that place and date of birth should be allowed to be changed on a birth certificate and I have never heard of such a thing being allowed. I would be interested on seeing some proof that it actually is allowed to happen today.

Of course children who were never adopted keep their original birth certificate. It doesn’t “prove” anything other then that the law has decided that everyone needs a birth certificate of some kind. Original birth certificates are only sealed when there is another one to take it’s place. Everyone needs a birth certificate of some kind.

43

I am afraid that I have only heard this by other birthmothers who have infact run across this. I don’t even know where to find a site that would offer such info. Besides I think it would vary from state to state. From what I understand the “birth date” is what gets changed and is substituted with the “adoption date” Thus making it difficult in a search to nail a date as birthmothers are looking for one…and the adoptee another.

Personally my son’s birth information was not altered in any way.

44

Ok Isabelle how do you feel about only CERTAIN information being given: like medical stuff, but no names of birthparents?

45

Any comment on the rest of my post Isabelle? I am really interested to hear how you feel about the double standard between birth mothers and birth fathers.

46

I appreciate your thoughts. You brought up some interesting points and I wish to think about this for a little while before responding.

I will get back to you in a little bit.

47

Sounds fair to me. :slight_smile:

48

Are you limiting the information with the intent of the adoptee and birthparent never to find eachother?

Why do you think the adoptee should be denied access to his birthparents info?

If there is “limited” information as you suggest…Do you think birthparents have the responsibility to later file a supplement to keep the infomration accurate for the life of the child?

If there is limited information how do you propose an adoptee find their birthparent if they wish to do it at a legal age?

I am considering your question but would like more info from you.

49

I don’t think an adoptee has a “right” to barge into his or her birthmother/father’s life and disrupt it. And some will do just that, and it’s not fair. They unselfishly gave the baby up and they have the right to move on with their lives with no fear of a knock at the door years down the road if that’s not what they want.

However I think medical records are a good idea. No, I don’t think birthparents should be forced to keep updating, but I imagine most probably would if they knew that only the medical info would be made available to the kid.

50

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by In Conceivable *
**Knowing your origins is not a fundamental right. No one, adopted or otherwise, has a right to their families’ medical records. Calling these things “rights” doesn’t make it so.

[QUOTE]
[

After careful thought on this comment. You may have a valid point. But you don’t have me sold. My daughter is adopted and I feel she has the right to know her birthfathers medical history. For instance. The birthfather has diebetes in his immediate family. His one sister needed an organ transplant because of it. His other sister died at the age of 40 from it. What about breast cancer? What about other medical history. Like Eve said if potentially damaging information could be known ahead of time it could possibly save a life.

I thought about this and I think that this will always be a personal preference. Perhaps there is no right or wrong anwser.

As far as changing dates. Again I don’t have a site but it does happen. It is not uncommon for the adoptive parents to have the child for over a year before the adoption is finalized. I have heard that the actual birthdate is then substituted with the adoption date.
Dates of birth being changed has been very common in some states. Sometimes it was done because a holiday fell in where the birth certificate should have been notarized. Other states just did it because they could.

Alex Haley stated:
“In all of us there is a hunger, marrow deep, to know our heritage, to know who we are, and where we have come from. Without this enriching knowledge, there is a hollow yearning, no matter what our attainments in life, there is the most disquieting loneliness.”

This is so true of adult adoptees and the adoptive parents of minor adoptees in totally closed adoptions. (In my personal experience) The existing law allows an adoptee to become an adult at the age of 18 within the definition, however not even the members of the state legislature ever speak of adult adoptees as adults. Adoptees are always referred to as ‘adopted children’ no matter what their age

Existing law tries very hard for those who are adopted to not be treated any different from those who are not, but there has and always will be ‘major’ differences, such as:

Extra records for foster homes, possible other hospitalizations after birth, and an original birth certificate.

An adoptee is issued a second birth certificate not at relinquishment but upon being adopted.

All of the original records including those within the first bullet, which may tell an adoptee where they came from or any medical problems the may have had at birth, are sealed and locked away from them for the rest of their life.

Here in Florida if an adoptee would like access, they must petition the court and show a judge ‘just cause’ (for which in the field of adoption there currently is no clear cut definition for) on why they should be allowed to have a copy of any of the above records. Even then they may only have a 1% chance of obtaining this access. The non-adopted never have to do this.

Again I say this info should not be given to a child…only an adult.

Snoopyfan to respond to your comments. I would have to say you brought a valid point also. However if you reread my initial post…the last sentence you will see that the “majority” of birthmothers want a reunion with their children. This is based on my personal experience of aprox 500 birthmothers. I do not feel comfortable with the stats I have seen on other websites that would also agree with or disagree with my statement because I think everyone has their own agenda and will have the numbers favor their cause. So I express my opinion based on my personal expereince.

I think we have to keep in mind that receiving your own personal identity or birth records and CONTACTING a birth parent are two different events. One does not necessarily lead to the other.

No one should be denied access to their own identity information by the government based on some crazy premise of protecting parents from unwanted contact.

As far as contact, of course any citizen in this country can deny contact with another. All you have to say is “no.” It’s not the business of the government to get involved with micro-managing who contacts who (unless there is evidence of intent to do harm) and protecting individuals.

Finally, it’s hard to believe in the era of Oprah and Maury Povich TV reunions that anyone still thinks sealed records are protecting birth parents from contact. If someone thinks they have lifelong anonymity due to sealed adoption records, they are living in lala land. The information is just harder to get at.

I have often come to Great Debates feeling strongly on a subject only to have my mind changed from other posters. You guys are giving me a run for my money!

51

Originally posted by In Conceivable

After careful thought on this comment. You may have a valid point. But you don’t have me sold. My daughter is adopted and I feel she has the right to know her birthfathers medical history. For instance. The birthfather has diebetes in his immediate family. His one sister needed an organ transplant because of it. His other sister died at the age of 40 from it. What about breast cancer? What about other medical history. Like Eve said if potentially damaging information could be known ahead of time it could possibly save a life.

52

Originally posted by In Conceivable

After careful thought on this comment. You may have a valid point. But you don’t have me sold. My daughter is adopted and I feel she has the right to know her birthfathers medical history. For instance. The birthfather has diebetes in his immediate family. His one sister needed an organ transplant because of it. His other sister died at the age of 40 from it. What about breast cancer? What about other medical history. Like Eve said if potentially damaging information could be known ahead of time it could possibly save a life.

What is a life worth saving to you?

53

I’m not adopted and I don’t know my family medical history. Nor do I have any right to the information that passes between my family members and their doctors, which is exactly as it should be.

Doctor/patient confidentiality protects the right of the patient to keep their medical information private. It doesn’t matter what information that is, either. I don’t have a right to find out my father’s medical records, or my grandfather’s, or grandmothers, or aunts’ or uncles’ to see if I might get cancer.

Neither should an adopted kid.

54

Good lord Isabelle. This isn’t really about saving a life and you know it. There are tests for diabetes and people routinely get them even with no family history. Women should always have breast exams. Most breast cancer occurs in people with no family history of the disease.

How are you going to require a birth father’s medical records be provided anyway? As I said before many birth certificates list the father as unknown or have an incorrect father listed. No one has a right to have their father on their birth certificate so I really can’t understand how you can say they have the right to have their birth mother. It is a double standard you have yet to address.

No one is entitled to their families’ medical records. No one! It doesn’t matter if you are adopted or not. I think that my right to keep my medical records private far out weighs anyone else’s desire to see them.

55

:smiley: You are right. I just had to throw that in to stir the pot.

You are very right. I can’t argue with you. It would just be easier if the info was made available. But you are right.

As far as requiring the info from the birthfather…
The majority of the information is provided at time of the original birth certificate being complete. I would (assume) that the majority of the people providing the birth certificate information is the birth mother. She would be the “key”. I know with all 5 of my births the information recorded was based on my responses.
Each state varies requiring a signature for relinquishment from the birthfather. It would be helpful if there were some affadavit offering this information before relinquishing rights.

Should this be mandatory? Well I would like to say yes. But I guess the anwser is no.

I don’t know the anwser. You have a point that I am not certain I agree with. I would like more time to digest this comment and get back to you. It appears there is no black or white anwser.

I can’t argue with you on this matter either. I think this might just be a personal opinion. Perhaps I should not call it a “right”

BUT
I feel I have a right to my medical history and I am not adopted.
You disagree.
Who is right or wrong?

“Birth” families are families; their preservation must be a priority

56

[QUOTE]
Knowing your origins is not a fundamental right/QUOTE]

But it is, guaranteed under the Constitution (14th amendment). All states maintain vital records, the birth certificate in particular detailing date and time of birth, place of birth, and parentage. Rights of inheritance, of national protection, of parental obligations, etc depend on knowing one’s birth information.

Anyone ,non-adopted, has the right to obtain their original birth certificate. Too, one can obtain birth certificate information on others; states allow one to obtain certified birth certificates for relatives (extent, and need, defined by state)
I have not seen “right” to medical records promulgated. Especially with the new HIPAA act, this certainly is not a right. But all people except adoptees have the ability to seek medical history.

The sealing of the OBC is a legal contract that was not agreed to by the person to whom that document belongs. The documents belongs to the one born, no others. The document established (assuming it was not falsified) a person’s identity. This affects when a person can collect SS, can obtain Medcare benefits, knows what year to begin mammograms, etc). Lastly, a certificate is sealed when an adoption is decreed, not when another certificate takes its place. The reverse is true:a new certificate is created because the original is sealed.

57

I agree that you have a right to your own personal medical history. You don’t have the right you your mother’s.

I would say that the birth certificate belongs to the state not the born. I would agree that the date and place of birth should not be altered on the certificate and you have still given no evidence that this actually happens today.

58

In Conceivable you have added much to this conversation.
Just out of curiosity what is your stance on adoption?

For it? Against it?

Could you place your child for adoption?
Could you take someone elses child and raise it as your own?
Would you allow them to find their birthparents?

59

I agree that you have a right to your own personal medical history. You don’t have the right you your mother’s.
--------We are going to have to agree to disagree. Neither of us wants to change our opinion.

I would say that the birth certificate belongs to the state not the born.
-------Why do you say this?
I would agree that the date and place of birth should not be altered on the certificate and you have still given no evidence that this actually happens today.
-------yeah afraid I don’t have any hard evidence to point you to. I can only tell you of the stories I have heard from others.
Sorry.

60

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Isabelle *

I see nothing here indicating that “knowing your origins” is a fundamental right.