I’ve been impressed with some of the latin scholars on this board, so I thought I’d throw out a problem I’ve been working on. I have an old letter written in Latin which includes the following sentence:
The opening clause is easy: “I hope that you will execute all duties (lit. “all things to be completed”) in this admittedly difficult office with (equally) great prudence, vigilance, and charity,” (tanta is balanced by an earlier phrase tanto honore; in essence the writer is hoping the man’s qualities are as great as the honor he’s receiving).
However, the part in italics mystifies me. The writing is rather faded, but I’m pretty sure I copied the letters correctly. Any advice?
I’ll be interested to see what a proper translation of it is. I can kinda get the gist of what’s being said – “I hope you will execute all duties blah blah, so that to this College may praise and something, not only in knowledge but also in piety, to you this institution something.” It’s stating the hoped-for result of this guy’s leadership or something.
Might it be something like “so that it may be considered praiseworthy in this Urbanus College [that] the institution has dedicated [itself] not only in knowledge but in loyalty to you”?
More literally, “that it is able to be considered in praise to this Urbanus College, the institution to have given not only in sciences but in loyalty to you”.
I’m still not quite happy about that “dedisse”, though.
When i first transliterated the sentence to my notebook, I wrote the expected cum…tum. On rechecking (since I couldn’t figurte out the grammar of this sentence0, it was indeed tum…tum. Odd, but there it is.
That’s about the best I could do with it, the idea being that the college (or the duci) can take pride that the institution has given to you in both wisdom and piety (Urbanus College is a seminary, and the letter is written by a member of a religious order, so I’ll take that final liberty with pietas).
I can’t vouch for the original writer’s mastery of Latin, and am glad more than a few fellow Latinates find this sentence as puzzling as I did. Thx:-)
Well, Kimstu’s translation seems mostly right to me. Here’s what I would have said: “That it can be considered [lit:led] in praise to [or for] this Urban College that the institution has given you both knowledge and piety [lit: given with respect to, or something like that].”
Hmm. I took “in pietate tibi” to mean “in loyalty to you”, rather than interpreting pietas more literally as “piety”. But maybe your interpretation works better.
Yeah, I see either interpretation. I chose my way because of the parallelism - tibi seemed to go with both. What was the problem with dedisse, by the way?
I thought “dedisse” should have “scientias” and “pietatem” as direct objects instead of those odd prepositional phrases with “in”, if its indirect object was “tibi”. But I am not an expert Latinist by any stretch of the imagination, and I willingly defer to the better informed.
That would certainly be a much more straightforward way of saying it! Do, dare can be intransitive, and in + abl. can also be used “in other relations, where a person or thing is thought of as in a certain condition, situation, or relation” (Lewis & Short).
To fill in some of the context, the letter dates from 1881 and is a family heirloom I was asked to translate. It appears to be a letter from a bishop in the Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith in Rome to a bishop in the Iowa diocese of Davenport. It is an informal notice (the bishops seem to know each other) that the diocese of Dubuque was to be split and that the Iowa bishop was to be installed as head of the new Diocese of Davenport.
Again, the letter was sent from Rome, and I won’t vouch for the Latin (it is indeed “fancy pants” in a number of other areas). The key for me, as Helen’s Eidolon noted, is taking the infinitive duci to mean “be considered” after possit; while I recognized the indirect speech in institutionem dedisse, I found it hard to justify without this crucial point. Thx again all:)
Sorry i just made an account and cant figure out how to create my own thread so i poster on this one. I have to translate Arthur Slays a Giant for class and i have the whole story done but i cant figure out this one sentence. Will all of you latin scholars out there help me?? Here is the sentence:
Arturus itaque revocata virtute ocius elabitur et celeriter nunc hinc nunc illinc nefandum gladio diverberat nec requievit donec letali vulnere illato totum mucronem capiti impressit, qua cerebrum testa protegebatur.
People here are pretty sensitive about actually doing homework for students, but if you post your thinking, and where you are getting tripped up, I am sure you will get guidance.
okay thanks! sorry thats not what i ment for it to seem like at all. i did everything else but that one sentence, but i can see how it would look. my bad. well so far i think i have the first part as “Arthur then having been revoked by bravery quickly slipped out and…” thats where i get stuck. i can pair words together like fatal wound and monstrous sword. but i cant figure out the word order for the second half after the “et”
revocata isn’t “revoked” in this context, but “called back.” As for the rest of the sentence, have you tried breaking out the clauses around the finite verbs? I might put a semicolon before donec, myself.
As for the zombie thread, cum. . . tum changes in medieval Latin, and since this looks like Church Latin I suspect that is the correct reading.
LittleMissLoLo, my comment about Medieval Latin was for CJJ*'s question from 6 years ago. I know yours is also medieval Latin because I recognize it: Galfridus Monumetensis, or, anglice, Geoffrey of Monmouth.
This is what i have so far. the wording is still a little messy at some parts, but is most of it correct?
Arthur then called back by bravery quickly slipped out and swiftly he was striking the monstrous beast now here now there, he did not rest until he buried the whole sword point to the head having inflicted a fatal wound, which the skull was protected.
You are translating it as though revocata modified Arturus. This cannot be right. Find the right verb to construe with Arturus and the rest of the syntax should fall into place.
so i poster on this one. I have to translate Arthur Slays a Giant for class and i have the whole story done but i cant figure out this one sentence. Will all of you latin scholars out there help me?? Here is the sentence: