Advice Sought: unnecessary chatter

In My Humble Opinion
21

Not sure what you mean by this.

I do apologize if I misunderstand your post. It seemed rather smug, to me, but hey it’s a message board. There are no verbal cues for clarity.

What I was trying to say is that when people say to you “You’re awfully quiet” what they’re really saying is “Your silence is making me uncomfortable. I’m trying to understand it, and by extension, you.”

One way to help them understand you/your silence, is to say something like “I’m just a quiet person. I find it sort of hard to make conversation when I can’t think of anything to say. Do you ever find it hard to make conversation?” or you know, something open-ended. This kind of thing works as a conversation opener, it gives them somewhere to go from there. If you just say “I’m just a quiet person.” or just agree that you’re quiet, and nothing else, it’s a conversation ender as you noted.

22

Use the opportunity to compliment. Say something like, “You look great in that blue dress with the yellow flowers.” It’s a perfect opening for showing that she is important to you and that you care.

And Gary T is absolutely correct in the book reading example.

23

Ha ha- I’ve been known to say “Heard and noted.”

I agree that usually people want some kind of confirmation that you are indeed hearing, and maybe listening to, them. When I find myself in the OP’s situation with my husband, I usually think “what is the message he is trying to send me?” Often it is simply “here I am, pay attention to me”.

24

Maybe if you start answering everything with, “Yes, dear,” it will grate on her and she’ll become fine with no answer at all! :smiley:

Yup, that’s a receipe for a happy marriage. Compromise.

25

maggy, I’d be willing to bet that your friend who you admire so much wasn’t BORN with that ability. I’m a quiet person by nature, but most people I know (other than my family) simply do not know that. I’ve learned how to become more chatty and social. Yes, I had to basically force myself to first LEARN how to socialize, then secondly to USE the techniques I learned. Yes, they’re essentially “canned”. Know what? They still work. It’s difficult at first, and it may always be at least somewhat difficult. (It is for me, and I’ve been working on it for over ten years.) But it’s really worth it - think about how you envy your friend. Wouldn’t it be nice to be able to do at least SOME of the same thing?

And you don’t really have to change all that much, because people love to talk about themselves. Ask an open-ended question or two. Asking about their job, where they live, their family, kids, dogs, whatever, and they’ll very likely open right up and tell you all kinds of things. All YOU have to do is ask that first question, and then you can listen to your heart’s content. Toss in an “uh-huh” or a “really?” every so often, and you’re golden.
You can leave the party with new friends, they’ll think you’re a scintillating conversationalist, and the only difference is you asked a few questions and made some noises at them to indicate you’re still listening.

I also think that humans require the noises to indicate attention because it is, in fact, possible to look like you’re paying 100% attention to someone and your mind is a million miles away. The noises at least give one more indication that you MIGHT actually be paying attention.

26

Wow. I didn’t expect to see so much vehemence about the issue. I recognize that this is a problem for me, for whatever that’s worth. At least I don’t feel like it’s just me anymore. My wife reviewed the thread last night and agreed with a lot of what you guys said. She also now accepts that I’m not deliberately snubbing her after seeing responses from people like me, so thanks for that. Like I said earlier, I’ll try.

27

In Tony Hillerman’s books about Navajo policeman Jim Chee, he says the Navajo customs do not include these little conversational nudges that white people do without thinking. The Navajo way is to politely wait for the speaker to finish. It can be confusing to whites when we don’t get little verbal responses to a pause.

28

I find it extremely interesting that there are so many responses from people who think that Stuffy – and, by extension, others that feel the same – needs to change to accommodate people who, like his wife, want some response to what some (but not everyone) sees as an empty statement. I see answers above that I understand and respect, except for the inclusion of phrases like: “Force yourself.” “As one of the chatty people, I think you should make something of an effort.” “…those who refuse to participate in it come across as arrogant in the extreme.”

And you have all made very good points – about social interactions, and cues in communication. Nonetheless, I see this as very one-sided. Those who don’t respond to idle chatter are the ones being asked to change for the benefit of the rest. People who like to chat on and on are being used as the “norm” here. I would like to take a few lines to support the other viewpoint.

I’m going to start by making an analogy. The one thing that I can count on that readers of this thread have in common is that they read a bulletin board. So think, for a moment, about all the thankless work the moderators do. They boot the trolls, people leaving ads, spam, and the occasional argumentative person whose stridency has passed their ability to express themselves. Why do they do this? To keep the board about, what the board is about. In other words, “signal to noise ratio” – we all enjoy it best when there is a lot of signal (interesting stuff on the board) and less noise (stuff we don’t like). We may not always agree on what’s noise, but there are plenty of things I think most of us agree on – like spammers, advertisements, trolling, and so forth.

Think of a person who isn’t chatty as wanting to maximize the signal to noise ratio in their life. They want less useless noise, and are happiest when every sentence has a meaning, a purpose for being used. Now, you may be thinking that many of us want that. But add to that, the idea that these people disagree with what is “noise”, just like some people like the posts in the MPSIMS forum, and some do not. That’s what you are facing here. A person that, like Stuffy, or myself, does not want to add to the noise in the world by adding a response where none is felt called for. I note that Stuffy didn’t complain once about his wife making her statement about the dress – just about wanting him to respond. I would be thinking just what Odinoneeye did: “Ok, why are you telling me?”

I want to make a clear distinction, too, between being good at small talk and enjoying it. maggy clearly envies someone who has that knack. The response many would give is to practice. I agree, that will certainly improve one’s abilities, and perhaps satisfy maggy’s envy. But that misses the point. I feel that I’m quite capable of small talk – and drawing someone out, and having a conversation even when there’s nothing in common. It’s a social skill I’ve practiced because I find it useful. But for some of us, it is so very draining to have to do this. I’m quite capable of, and enjoy, talking for hours on end with friends or co-workers on topics of interest. But thirty minutes of trying to maintain small talk with various people on no topic at all just to get to know them, and I’m ready for a full night’s sleep, or at least to be alone for a day.

Because that’s what some people don’t get. I don’t have any idea how many or which posters to this thread that would apply to, and don’t presume to guess, but in general I meet many people who just don’t get this. For those of us who prefer it quiet, prefer a high signal-to-noise ratio, it’s not about ability. It’s not about understanding and connecting with the other person. It’s about how much we just do not enjoy talking about nothing. We might very well enjoy an intelligent conversation about something (this thread, for instance), but not idle chatter. It’s not fun. It’s draining. It’s work. For some people, it’s physically uncomfortable. And before someone posts that, for a person this makes uncomfortable, they need professional help – ask yourself, does the person that is uncomfortable with silence need just as much help? In my mind, those two people are much the same, merely at opposite ends of a preference.

Triss suggests, for instance, that a quiet person could reply “I’m just a quiet person. I find it sort of hard to make conversation when I can’t think of anything to say. Do you ever find it hard to make conversation?” What about “I’m a quiet person. I’m perfectly capable of holding a conversation when there is something to say, but I don’t speak up if I don’t have something useful to say, and I find it taxing when others babble on without having anything to say.” I wouldn’t suggest saying that quite that way (it would probably end quite a few conversations quickly!), yet I think it is closer to what a lot of us feel. (“Us” meaning, if you haven’t gleaned it by now, the Quiet Ones.)

Now, I don’t want to go too far with this. For example, Stuffy’s example of responding to a request for attention (“Daddy?”) non-verbally takes things a bit far. Something like that is, in essence, a question (“Can I have your attention for a moment?”) that needs a response (“Yes.”) (In electronics, this would be a simple communications protocol: an external interrupt, followed by an interrupt acknowledge – that’s the missing part here – followed by the main part of the signal. But I digress.) In addition, any time a person is in a relationship with someone who doesn’t have quite the same level of communications requirements, the two need to reach a workable compromise. And really, what two people anywhere need precisely the same thing?

But it should be a compromise – that is, both sides should change – not just the person who is more comfortable with quiet.

“Should I have to present all my sentences in the form of a question in order to be acknowledged?”

Yes, if you don’t mind. Just think of OP’s at the tops of threads in this forum. Do they get more responses if they simply make a statement and stop? Or do they go longer when they ask a question?

I want to second a statement made up-thread: “Human interaction (and maturity) requires that we understand other’s needs instead of stubbornly insisting that everyone understand ours only.” That includes understanding us quiet folks. (And yes, in spite of the length of this post, I count myself among the quiet.)

We thank you.

29

As the person who said one of those things, I would like you to take another looks at the rest of my post:

The point I tried to make is that people need different things in order to feel loved and respected. If responses to statements is what your spouse needs, then you ought to try to do that, because you do love her(him?). Not because chatty people are better or more normal, but because it will make the person happy. In return, the spouse in question ought to be doing the same thing–looking for what you need in order to feel loved, and making an effort in that direction.

DangerDad and I have gone through something of this very issue. He does try to respond to my meaningless chatter, because he’s figured out that it’s one way I try to connect with him–IOW it’s not meaningless to me. Then, I know that he particularly appreciates certain kinds of gestures, so I make an effort to remember to do various things that would not ordinarily occur to me, or might even be a little hard to do at first. We’re both happier.

Most people wind up married to people who need completely different things in order to feel loved and respected. It can take a while to figure out what each person needs–if they even know it themselves–and to get used to making that effort. But it’s part of the glue that holds married people together, and far more meaningful than big expensive romantic gestures.

30

We keep losing sight of an important distinction here: small-talk in general, vs. an acknowledgment that one heard a comment directed at one.

I’m also very quiet, in general. I’m not a big yakker. In a group situation, I’ll be a listener, not a talker. One-on-one, I’ll probably be doing more listening than talking, unless I’m responding to direct questions (which I’m generally happy to do). I’ve learned the skill of making small-talk, and can do it when necessary, but it’s not my idea of a good time. I totally understand where the “quiet” folks are coming from here – honest, gang, I’m one of you!

This is different, however, from sitting there as a black hole into which the other person’s conversational gambits are disappearing without a trace. When someone is talking to me, I’m nodding and smiling, um-hmming, and “no-kidding-ing” like a son-of-a-gun. I’ll do this even in IM conversation – for instance with a friend who’s ranting on about something, I’ll throw in an “ok” or a “hmmmm” every once in a while to indicate that I’m paying attention. That’s all I’m talking about here – giving specific evidence that one is paying attention.

Because small talk is a means of maintaining social bonds, when someone makes a pleasantry, it is considered sociable (in our society – not necessarily all societies, as AskNott points out) to acknowledge that pleasantry as a way of “holding up one’s end of the conversation.” This “holding up” can take place at a variety of spots on a spectrum – from full participation, through various one-word responses, to various monosyllabic responses, to dead silence. I’m calling the dead silence “arrogant,” because it leaves the full burden on the other person – as in, “What you’re saying, in an effort to be pleasant and/or connect with me as a human being, is so utterly uninteresting to me that I can’t even be bothered to exert myself so far as to grunt.” I called that arrogant before, and I’ll call that arrogant again.

Yikes. Sorry to get so heated about this – guess I’m not the only one with my knickers in a twist about this, though, eh?

31

Thanks NE Texan for such an eloquent response. You said many of the things I was thinking but wouldn’t have written nearly so well.

I thought this was interesting. I’ve been making an effort all morning to respond whenever my wife has said something. It really is an effort. Basically I’ve just said “yeah” or “ok”, but it really is work to me and I still feel absurd responding to statements like “I’m getting in the shower” which happened earlier. There’s actuality a moment when I think to myself, ok should I say something. Odd.

32

twickster, I see what you’re saying, and you’re right. There is a difference between small talk and someone acknowledging a comment. And I also agree with you that, while taking part in a conversation, you should respond verbally (to a verbal stimulus) to show that you’re involved. This technique is called “active listening”, and it helps maintain the connection. Even better is if you occasionally give feedback (“yes, I hear what you’re saying about your dress.” “I can tell that really bothered you.” and so forth). I think this applies to dangermom’s response, too: active listening does show that you’re caring about someone, listening, taking part in the conversation, and connecting. I find no fault in either of those two posts.

I did not, however, get the impression from Stuffy’s post that we were talking about a conversation. Perhaps you did, and only the OP can tell us which of us were closer to his original intent. It made me think of the small things people say “thinking out loud” to themselves from time to time. (By the way, maggy has a thread in MPSIMS about this, which is a connection to this thread.) And to me, wanting a response to a “thinking out loud” kind of statement was the type of behavior I was thinking about. It’s now clear to me that wasn’t what you were thinking about.

Funny thing – even though I’m a quiet person normally, I think out loud sometimes when I’m trying to concentrate. Drives my wife batty. (She’s a quieter person than I am, btw.) I’ll say something, half to myself (“Let me think, jeans or dress pants today?”), and she’ll be annoyed. “God, you mutter to yourself all the time!” Well, guilty as charged. If I had actually wanted a response, I would have stated it quite clearly (“Honey, can I get your opinion on…”) But I was thinking out loud, invading “her air space” as we put it, and she gets annoyed at that just as I do on the few occasions she does the same.

But we have to find the right balance at our house. I think we have, and by and large, understand each other, and know when we actually want a response, and when it’s just noise, and when the other person isn’t going to want the noise. Stuffy and his spouse need to work out the balance at their house, as does everyone else at theirs, and they won’t all be the same.

At any rate, I don’t see your responses (or anyone’s, really) as heated, and I’m enjoying the thread.

33

Well, a lot of times I tell Dr.J stuff that isn’t exactly conversation, but isn’t exactly idle chit-chat, either. Things like “I’m getting into the shower now.” It’s not that I expect him to be oh so fascinated with my grooming schedule, but that he might have started the dishwasher or a load of laundry that I’m unaware of, or some other contraindication to me showering right at that moment. There’s also the possibility that he might get up, still in Videogameland Trance Mode, to use the bathroom, flush, and scald me before he realizes that the shower’s running. It gives him warning that I’m going to unavailable for commentary/questions for the next little bit. It doesn’t require a huge response, a mumbled “mmkay” is adequate to acknowledge that there is no other major water-pressure drain currently in progress, and that he will not scald or freeze me by triggering any major water drains for the duration of my shower. Without that response, I’m left to go through the house checking the major water-using appliances, and spend my shower wondering if the water will suddenly turn to ice or liquid fire.

There are a lot of little things like that–“I’m running out to the car for a minute” “I’m taking the dogs to work with me tonight” “There’s leftover chicken in the fridge if you want it” “I just cleaned some cat puke off your favorite chair, so the seat’s damp.” I don’t expect us to hold a summit on the topic, but I’m not just blathering to myself 'cause I like the sound of my own voice, ya know?

Of course, sometimes I am just muttering to myself and don’t expect an answer. Heck, at times like that, I usually don’t even realize I’ve spoken. Fortunately, he’s pretty good at distinguishing which is which, so he doesn’t have to exert himself to answer pointless babble, but does generally acknowledge stuff that’s addressed directly to him. And because he’s usually responding, I know that he’s actually listening to me and cut him some slack when he doesn’t respond. Hey, if he wasn’t listening when I told him about the cat puke, that’s fine, let his resulting wet ass be on his own head. If it’s something I think it’s important that he acknowledge, I’ll ask if he heard me. Otherwise, I let him be.

34

Really talkitive people don’t really want you to respond, but they don’t want to feel you’re ignoring them either. “Hmm,” “yeah” or “ah” coupled with a slight nod of the head usually keeps them happy.

35

NETexan:

What Twickster said, basically.

The only thing I can think to add is that interaction between people isn’t and shouldn’t be reducible to a signal-to-noise ratio. That’s just cold.

If one’s spouse is repeatedly expressing discomfort with any aspect of one’s personality, then the thing to do is to try to accomdate them within reason. Which of course does work both ways. Yes it takes effort, yes we all have to venture past the limits of our comfort zones, whatever that may mean. That’s what’s required in any relationship.

If it’s causing repeated comments or arguments, it needs to be attended to. That’s really what it boils down to IMO.

36

I’m a limited talker myself, and it’s been my experience that responses like “hmmm” and “ok” eventually lead to the alpha talker saying “Is that all you’ve got to say about this?” The alpha talker is a performer and wants applause.

I’ve found that saying fun and cool non-commital type words like “Sweet” “Coolness” “Preach it” “Stay strong” and “I hear ya” are satisfactory to the alpha talker.

37

I’m in the quiet camp, but I have learned to master the short noncommittal phrasebook. Still, if someone just delivers to me a fact, a la carte, such as the aforementioned “I’ll wear a dress today.” my best reponse is likely to be “Noted.”
Perhaps “Okay.” Now, if it’s some fact that seems entirely random, and I have no idea why they’re relating it to me, I am guilty of the occasional, questioning… “Okaaay?” As if to say, ‘And you’re telling me this because…?’

I’m a bad, bad conversationalist. And while a previous poster asserted that we’re all hardwired for this sort of interaction… many languages don’t do it that way. Plus, if we were all hardwired for it… would there be so many of us that are strongly resistant to it? :wink:

On the flipside, anyone ever talk to someone who seemed to have mastered the inappropriately timed acknowledgement? There’s a guy at work here who delivers and ‘okay’ or ‘uh-huh’ about every three seconds, while I’m still talking.

On the other flipside, anyone know folks that are completely oblivious to signs of disinterest? One friend of mine is even more socially backward than myself… he’s been known to follow people to bathroom doors to finish a thought he’s expressing, even if they’ve pointedly excused themselves.

38

Stuffy, I was in your situation. I’m more of an observer than a conversationalist, but once I’m on a roll I can get hard to stop. I know I’m capable of steamrolling people, so I keep myself in check.

It’s like some hidden superpower.
The last time someone told me that they felt I didn’t give enough verbal acknowledgement I made it a point to bulldoze that person in coversation for the next month. Once they couldn’t get a word in edgewise they stopped giving a damn whether I talked enough. Solved that problem nicely.

39

NE Texan - wow! what a great post! I’m with you…sometimes it is work…

40

Excellent post, NE Texan. You said just what I wanted to say.

Mrs. Dante is has a tendency to think out loud, but she accepts that I usually don’t answer her. She wanted me to in the past, but after multiple conversations that went:

she now tunes me out!

Also, her mother is the World Logorrhea Champeen. She narrates her entire day to herself.