Advice sought with regards to a girl! Of course (long)

Long, somewhat whiny, and rambling. I’m also sure there are things I won’t want to hear, but that should slap some sense into me. This little tidbit is also heavily laden with anxiety I’m fighting through right now, so I’ll try to leave that note out.

First, a bit of background. I’m a WoW player…been playing off and on for a while. Back in April this year, I started talking with one of the guild members with whom I had never really talked before. She’d been playing for the same amount of time I had, we were both geeks (though I’m in PA, she’s in Louisiana). Almost immediately we hit it off well; she was great fun to talk to and within a week we had exchanged phone numbers, and beyond playing in game a little she’d randomly call me to chat.

We each seemed to hold each other up a little bit. I was finishing my last semester at grad school, and was worried about even being able to find a job. She was one year out of a bad relationship (I was 1.5 years out of one myself) and we both seemed to talk well together. Before long it was a few hours a day of chatting. I had finally found a job, and she helped me through a rather nasty move (where the ceiling in my old bedroom nearly collapsed, fun) and her continual calls helped me settle in. Around this time she also finally found a temp position that could lead into something more, and we settled into a good routine (for us) : Emails during the day, a phone call from her when she was out of work, another call when walking the dog or playing wow together, then a final one to close the night out.

It was during this time we started to express interest in each other too; there was mutual attraction going on. For a while we were shy about it, instead of saying anything we’d play around and go “No, you want me!”…that kind of sickening stuff newer couples do, hah. I had mentioned that around labor day I wanted to visit some friends in the south (in Mobile) and she brought up the idea that she could drive over and hang out too; I changed that into why don’t we then go to New Orleans for a day as well. She agreed enthusiastically, and I started to make plans.

The mutual attraction seemed to deepen a bit, as we had, um, steamy conversations a few times over the next few weeks as well; rather bluntly stating some attraction. She also made clear she hoped something would happen during the visit, even as recently as the day before the trip.

So, background established, here is the trip:

I showed up, and some anxiety settled in; we had both talked about the trip and were both exited, and nervous. Not quite sure what to expect I guess. She showed up, and it was fine in the beginning, but she seemed a little distant, or shy (we were hanging out with those friends in Mobile, she didn’t know them and I only knew half). We were still chatty though especially if we were alone, and I think I gave a nice backrub, but she still seemed a little nervous / whatever, which made me a little more anxious. I tried to hold her hand at one point, which she gave but kind of held on limply, then took her hand back after a minute.

A little later that day I think I made mistake #1: We were in the pool alone and started talking a little about sex. She mentioned things, and also said she didn’t think she was a sexual creature all the time; which has never really seemed the case before (but she can wax hot and cold on the phone). I said you know we really don’t have privacy or a nice place to stay here, I don’t think anything would happen here. She agreed, and I said what about tomorrow. “Maybe, we’ll have to see” was her response. That night when we went to sleep I put an arm around her, and we tried to settle in, but people kept coming in and out and making noise, didn’t lead to a very good night.

Next day we got up and got ready to head to New Orleans (Just her and I). Drive over was fairly uneventful, with us mocking each other as per usual. We got there and she showed me around to the hurricane damage, and then checked into the hotel. Mistake number 2 by me? I brought up the whole messing around thing again, it started as a whole I really hope you don’t’ think that’s why I came down, I was dying to see you and couldn’t wait. So of course I in an anxiety attack had to poke at it again, and she sounded irritated. I dropped it and switched over to normal conversation, and left it there.

We had a decent day wandering around the city, mostly the French Quarter and Bourbon St. Went out to a good restaurant (I had the crawfish pasta…mmm) then out to the horse pastures she loves so much. Spent some time with the horses, then back to the hotel to sleep. I apologized to her that night for asking questions due to anxiety and dropped it there.

Next day was dropping me off at the airport; we texted a little and she called when she got into work. Once I was home we had settled into the routine again, but either I’m being anxious or she really doesn’t feel as comfortable talking to me again (she could just be tired I have to keep telling myself).

So this is where we are left: I’m worried the attraction went by the wayside at the very least, and at the most she’s not sure she wants to talk to me. Other friends have advised me that they still think she is drawn to me, but is just confused and worried; unsure what she wants. Other minor details from the trip: I noticed she’d sparingly make eye contact with me sometimes; and wasn’t being overly touchy with me. I’m a coddler, and would do that sometimes, and she’d respond a little but not too much.

So, thanks for reading, feel free to smack me around and help me out of a nasty self-induced funk. It’s obvious what I want to hear, but the non anxious side wants the truth, plain and simple, so I can decide what to do. Questions welcome.

In the immortal words of my… ah, nevermind.

Hmmm… It sounds to me from reading your account that at critical moments you started acting like Woody Allen. If your approach towards making things physical was that awkward and nerve-racking, then it’s no wonder that things didn’t go as you hoped. Also, it sounded like maybe you were trying to force things? I’m not going to try to guess what she was thinking, as there are wimmin-folk here on the board that are much better at that than I, but if I had to I would agree that she was unsure of her wants, and that communication about “what is this relationship?” was not very clear. In any case, it’s not about blame; it’s about understanding what happened so you can feel better and improve for the future.

And another thing, long distance and face-to-face are very different animals. I know from experience. It’s very likely that it’s Game Over, but you dont know yet. Try to relax, and dont put all of your mental eggs in one basket! When you talk to her again, casually talk about your trip together. If she doesn’t make things clear with that, then ask her what she thinks of you.

Good luck!

Yeah, I think she felt a bit pushed in that direction. What we’re willing to say over the web or over the phone is often quite different to what we’re willing to do in person!

I met my (now) husband over t’internet and we had a similar awkwardness when we first met IRL.

How about sending her an email going ‘hey, i was really nervous and think i said some dumb things as a result, hope you don’t think less of me’ and see what she comes back with?

Traveling together is pretty tough on anyone, including best friends and couples who’ve been together for years. And spending a lot of one-on-one time with someone you’ve mainly spoken with on the phone is a big step, too, especially (and this may very well not be the case here) your idea of them in your head is dealt a blow by reality when you meet up in person (I know you two had met before, but I think people do this with everyone. The average-looking jerky ex becomes a suave hottie the longer you stay at an all-girls’ camp.) And while she may have acted differently on the phone (and who doesn’t?), there’s a chance you did, too, in ways you may not have noticed.

I definitely think the idea that something was ‘expected’ of her since you two were on a trip could have turned her off. Sort of lacks spontonaiety. It was nice of you to allay her fears, but yeah, the fact that you brought it up meant that it was on your mind. Most girls want to feel wanted, but hate the idea that if it weren’t for your sexual attraction you’d drop them in a second. And physical touching, even hand holding, can be weird for people who aren’t touchy-feely.

I’d go on as usual. There is no ‘truth’ for anyone here to tell you, since her own friends have said she’s confused. Perfectly reasonable. The majority of IMHO relationship posts seem to be from guys asking about girls, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t just as unclear and unsure about what she wants with you.

I think one of the biggest dangers of starting up a relationship in a long-distance setting without meeting in person for a while is the fact that it’s very easy to make it whatever you want it to be in your mind. You can control how and when you interact, and you both tend to be at your best when you do. By the time you meet face to face, one or both of you may have already solidified the other person in their mind as someone they’re not.

Anyway, from your OP I don’t think you could have done anything differently. I’m guessing she either wasn’t physically attracted to you in person or she was only ever looking for the fantasy relationship, even if she didn’t know it. Either way, I’d write off any chance for romance with this one. Preserve a friendship if you can do it without things being too weird, but don’t waste any more emotional energy on this one.

Thank you all for the advice so far; though some seems to conflict :slight_smile:

I agree that if this isn’t to be I’d hate to waste more emotion on it, and get frustrated / depressed over nothing. Tough to lose that when you have a girl telling you she had a dream where I asked someone out I worked with, and she felt sad.

Still, thank you for the blunt comments, and I’d appreciate more even from others.

As others have said, it’s dicey to meet someone IRL after letting yourself build up a preconception of what that may be like. If you can try to settle down and let her know you were nervous, but you still want to see where things go, but with no pressure, it might work out…or not as the case may be. Good luck!

Why aren’t you pursuing a relationship with someone who lives closer to you?

It’s this simple: in spite of all the phone/WOW/digital life chemistry, you guys didn’t click in person. Move on.

(either that, or you were both into it but were too socially awkward, nervous, and nerdy to overcome the initial shyness period in the limited time that you had on your vacation. I don’t mean that as an insult - I say it as a shy, nerdy guy that’s had relationships start in this exact same way in the past).

Wasn’t really a case of pursuit; I stumbled on this and hadn’t put much thought to pursuing local for the time. I’m a good standard introvert that has trouble going out and meeting people; I’m always struggling against that. And I have and will continue to take steps to find something in this area at this point. I’ve pretty much assumed this went into the crapper.

There’s something incredibly hot about a man (that you know, clearly. A weird guy off the street would just be. . weird) grabbing you, kissing you deeply, pushing you down on the bed, and molesting you. Alright, perhaps “molesting” really doesn’t have the connotation I’m going for, but you’re following me, I’m sure.

Spontaneity is sexy. The confidence it takes to do the above is really sexy.

Having uncomfortable discussions about potential banging is. . . uncomfortable and really, really unsexy.

You turned her off by making it uncomfortable and not having enough confidence to just go for what you wanted. I can almost guarantee you if you would have just grabbed her and kissed her in the pool, she would have kissed you back.

Of course, all of the above observations are working under the premise that she was at one time attracted to you (the biggest evidence of which is the phone sex thing. I mean, unless she’s just one of those needy girls who kept you around at her disposal to make her feel good, all the while knowing she didn’t like you at all).

But yeah, I’ve had guys try to talk about what type of sexual things they might want to do with me maybe if I was ok with it and the timing was right and we could do it later if you really want or we don’t have to at all or maybe we can go to a hotel but I mean only if that makes you comfortable and really we don’t have to I mean I understand if you don’t.

Then I’ve had the guys that just grabbed, kissed, and groped. Guess who I ended up sleeping with?

Then again, I’m probably just a whore, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Speaking for the general case: Not everyone feels that’s a requirement, and many people with social anxieties in particular do better initially over online links or hobbies.

Been there, done that.

I read the OP, but maybe I missed it.

Before you met, did you send her a pic?

I know a guy at work who met a girl online. Chatted for hours every night. $900/month phone bills.

This guy is a nice guy, but he ain’t a looker, and that’s all there is to it. He never sent her a pic.

He told me the whole story. They met, and she was nervous from the get-go. She drove him clear across town for a hasty dinner at an out of the way restaurant and then good-bye.

He thinks she was just a flake, but I think she got a look at him, didn’t care for what she saw and took him out of the neighborhood to negate any chance of her running into some of her friends.

Of course, I never told this to the guy, but I think that is what happened.

This is spot on I think. Trouble is, there’s a fine line between being confident and ‘forcing’ yourself on someone. If you’re not naturally that confident, especially with regard to sex, etc. then that isn’t going to come off anyway.

My vote is to go one of two ways: a) initiate a full and frank conversation about what happened and how you both felt - online or by phone or b) keep things going the way they are, but convince yourself that it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t work out (and it doesn’t - there’ll be others if interest has waned). You will be more confident as a result - and certainly more yourself. When you feel like it, arrange a visit on neutral territory and treat it as a meeting of friends and just see where it goes.

Hell, what do I know anyway?!

Yea she’s seen pics of me all over the place, I think I have one in the doper thread, and you can view it on my myspace (myspace.com/koldanar). We definitely went in knowing what the other looked like.

Well, I think logically if you go in to make a move- whether it’s a kiss or whatever- and she squeals, “OMG GET OFF ME! I’m just NOT into you, ok!?” That’s a pretty clear sign to stop the aggressive thing heh.

I was going to say pretty much exactly what DiosaBellissima said. It is one of my very biggest pet peeves when a guy tries to talk to you about messing around. I mean playing around on the phone is one thing, because youre on the phone there is no other way. But in person its just so WEIRD. I’ve had a few men ask me if they could kiss me. And another ask if when we hung out later I wanted to make out. The planning the messing around in the future is a HUGE turn off and just screams insecurity and fear of rejection which are revolting to me. You are who you are you cant change it so its exhausting being worried about it. You’re a grown man just DEAL WITH IT.

Asking her “maybe tomorrow?” is so awkward I cant handle it. What was she supposed to say? “Oh let me check my day runner and see if I can pencil you in? Lets see I think I have just enough time for making out and maaybbee some under the sweater action if we go to the later showing of the movie” Not to mention she probably thought thats all you had on your pervy little mind since you wouldn’t stop TALKING ABOUT IT and then wouldn’t stop APOLOGIZING ABOUT IT which is just bringing the topic back up again. We all think about sex all the time but don’t let someone you just met know that!

weird

I’m not even going to plow throught the rest of this thread because this advice here is gold. Listen to sandra_nz.

Yep, you’re absolutely right again. Unfortunately, some guys need those big signals, and if they get lesser ones (as described in the OP) that still leaves them with the feeling that they are somehow coercing the other party to go along with something they’re not into. It’s a two-way street of course, and I totally agree that the frank conversation approach is by far the least sexy! Just trying to highlight some of the issues with that for those of us that aren’t naturally confident…