All Baby rapers should die!

LauraRae;

All bullshit aside. You say your parents were aware of this sexual harassment and declined to step in? I assume that it was an ongoing thing for a period of time and they were aware of it for the whole time? Geez!

Castration: For any male, removing the testicles will not stop erections, though for a normal one, it will decrease tremendously the sex drive. I’m not sure if it will stop ejaculation, because that is a singular reflex located in the penis itself. In the case of a determined child molester, I figure that the urges are more from a warped mental condition than anything else and there have been reports, if my memory serves me well, about castrated molesters (both chemical and physical) reporting to their therapists that the urge, though diminished, is still there.

Plus, testosterone is mainly what the testes produce to give a man the sex urge. They also produce the sperm and a quantity of lubricating seminal fluid. I think, but again am not sure, that there is a gland located at the base of the penis above the testicles which also produces seminal fluid. If an erection can be achieved, then potential ejaculation is possible, I would think, even if it is a dry action. It is possible for a castrated male to obtain steroids, which are testosterone, and regain potentially diminished sexual urges.

At least, in theory. I have no proof of this. I do know that males who have been castrated due to disease or accident are often given fake ‘nuts’ for appearance and take testosterone. It was my understanding that they could resume sexual activity without the production of sperm.

Now, it has been demonstrated that the removal of the male hormone in humans tends to decrease the incidence of aggressiveness in males but if there is a mental disorder present, then the effect might be minimal. Like a previous poster stated, the condition is probably a form of mental illness, which allows a person to cross the line no matter the potential consequences.

In deference to the same posters observations of an increase in this form of crime, I agree because it seems like in the last 20 years, it has exploded all across the world. I read once about some testing psychiatrists did with rats over 40 years go that might be indicative to what is happening today.

They took a mass of normal rats, poked them into a ‘rat city’ and deliberately over crowded them, provided limited resources and shelter and observed what would happen. To their surprise, all forms of psychosis once considered to be human arose. Rats became belligerent with each other, they squabbled more, stole, even murdered. There were incidents of rape, something like suicide, some rats went nuts, some abandoned their young and some killed their infants.

I wonder if the crowded conditions of today might have triggered some of what is happening currently.


Mark
“Think of it as Evolution in action.”

At the risk of being attacked by those who feel strongly about this subject I have a serious question. If a young man, let’s say younger then 15, is seduced by an older woman, let’s say an aunt, he would brag about that day til the day he died. On the other hand if he were molested by an uncle, it would leave him “scarred”. However, for some reason girls seem to be the only people mentally scarred by “heterosexual sexual encounters” at young ages. Are men and women wired differently when it comes to sex? Or are we just raising girls in this country to believe sex is dirty and bad? Perhaps it’s a power thing? Most young boys would jump at the chance to have sex with a grown woman and they would be no worse off mentally and may even become good lovers for their future partners because of it. But if a young girl had sex with an adult male, and believe it or not it happens a lot more then you think with the young girl a willing participant, then there is outrage. What about 2 teenegers that have sex? Does the young girl suffer as much emotionally or is it only if she has sex with a guy over 18 that scars her for life? I realize this is somewhat off subject because in this case you are talking about a father/daughter and I suspect a mother/son thing would be just as bad, although I’ll bet most men would agree that if that had happened to them they would be no worse off today mentally then if it hadn’t happened. Not to say they wouldn’t have some thoughts about their weird mother, but I doubt I would be as emotionally scarred by my mother molesting me as my sister might be if my dad had molested her. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that girls are expected to remain virgins otherwise they are sluts, and young boys are expected to score ASAP. Somehow, that equation doesn’t work out. Which brings up another point. My sister (i have 3 and 1 brother) claims after going through hypnosis that my dad did molest her. None of us believe her because a)it never happened to any of us & b)the odd circumstances that this information was revealed under (hypnosis). I can’t say for sure it didn’t happen, just that I doubt it did. Boy that ought to rile someone. sorry. So why is it young girls are scarred by sexual encounters at a young age (assuming the guy they have sex with is over 18, for some reason this arbitrary age has been set although in some states the age of consent is still much lower) but boys aren’t? You know at one time in our recent history, people got married at ages younger then 16, and often it was an older man and younger woman. Just interested in some thoughts on this.

Pit

PITBULL:

You raise a valid point, though I think you might be just a bit incorrect in one area. Many boys who have been molested by a MALE relative are scarred for life, if the male is an adult. Now, I read where almost every boy has had a homosexual experience before the age of 20, though what is talked about is NOT true homosexuality but ‘comparison sex’ where guys get together and do something like a group ‘jerk off.’ This happens early in the teens when male children discover that the ‘gun’ no longer just salutes but is loaded and fires and a breeze blowing by can make them horny.

Teens who have sex with the opposite sex is not uncommon but it usually is consensual, which is different. Years ago, it was nothing for high school girls to brag about dating college guys, but these days it would land the guy in jail.

In the last 10 years it has been discovered that many of these ‘repressed memory’ accusations about parental or adult molestation of girls, brought out under deep therapy or hypnosis as being ‘false memories’ created by the therapist ‘loading’ them into the patient. In short, the therapist believes the subject was abused and makes them believe it also.

I don’t know about girls, but you are correct that teenaged guys would have loved to have gotten laid by an adult aunt, cousin or so on, in many cases. I think that there are girls who felt the same, but they don’t complain about it if they did it. The ones who complain were either forced into it or convinced by today’s news media that what happened was horribly wrong.

I know that when I was a teen, guys often managed to at least get a girl somewhere and do some touchy-feely to mutual satisfaction, which I consider sexual exploratory play but which today seems to be considered one step above an execution offense. Back then, if caught, punishment, if any, was handled by the parents. I do know of some girls, who at 16 or 17, had sex with college guys of 20-25 and bragged about it then and who today are not scarred or disturbed by it.

The main difference, I would think, is between consensual and forced. One cannot actually force a guy into having opposite sex encounters because if a guy is scared, the soldier will not stand up and function. No so with a woman. Plus it has been proven that men and women think and feel differently from men in many, many areas.

A man might think date rape acceptable because he got his rocks off while a woman might consider it invasion of her rights and privacy, even if she did not protest much. I think that might be why rape historically was not punished as severely as it is today when women did not have equal rights or were considered second class citizens.

I do feel that the overwhelming news media spread of molestation in all of its forms contributes heavily to the public reaction of today. Consenting sex play between kids is even lumped in there and it should not be.


What? Me worry?’

Ok, so when you castrate them, don’t just remove the testes, remove the penis as well. Serves em right.



Teeming Millions: http://fathom.org/teemingmillions
“Meat flaps, yellow!” - DrainBead, naked co-ed Twister chat
O p a l C a t
www.opalcat.com

Pitbulldawg said:


If a young man, let’s say younger then 15, is seduced by an older woman, let’s say an aunt, he would brag about that day til the day he died.


What makes it even more absurd, is that the poster below opens by saying PBD is making ‘a valid point’.

Who the hell would BRAG about the fact that his AUNT tries to seduce him ? Pitbulldawg, just how small IS that town you live in ?

Valid point, my ass.

Coldfire


“You know how complex women are”

  • Neil Peart, Rush (1993)

I don’t see why. I think you are saying that we need to base a law on the abstraction of physical age instead of psychological age. Look at it this way: I wasn’t taken advantage of; this was ethically right. If someone were taken advantage of, it would be ethically wrong. So fine. Make the law on the basis of whether or not someone got taken advantage of! Yes, this would require, among other things, compassion, fellow-feeling, doubt, and intelligence.

Other than to tell you what I experienced, I don’t know how to convince you. This is how I felt, and I’d appreciate it if you’d not deny my experience.

Well, thank you kindly. I think it’s unfair and legalistic to assume that every person of any given age is as immature as every other. Why can’t we be humanist and affirm individuals’ experiences?

I just have this horrible mental image of my first time being turned into a legal debacle by a vindictive party (my parents) and having a wonderful and ethical person being punished (imprisoned? castrated?? executed???!) without any consideration of the circumstances.

matt_mcl
Member posted 12-29-1999 08:53 PM

In other words, make it illegal to break some a minor’s heart. That doesn’t sound very viable.

Because that will result in incredibly arbitrary decisions.

One reason that there are more reported cases of child abuse might be because, well, more cases of child abuse get reported.

BTW. several people have said that if a child accuses someone of sexual abuse, you should automatically believe them. Whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”? I agree that you should respect their claim, and you certainly shouldn’t beat them, as someone did to one poster. You should also keep them away from the accused perpetrator. But don’t go ruining people lives because of what a child says.

I have a problem with some of the concepts being expressed here. If a child of 16-18 has sex willingly with an adult, legally it is statutory rape because ‘they don’t know any better.’ If the child – or kid – or teen, is talked into it reluctantly, it is rape. Now if the kid enjoyed the act, it is still rape – in one sense of the word, by law.

I know when I was in school, almost every guy was as anxious as possible to get laid by anything female! I also knew many somewhat fragmented families where an ‘Aunt’ was not all that close and some where the Aunt was quite attractive. I think many sexual contacts within the family group were more often with cousins. People joke about it, but it often happened because cousins were not seen by kids as close family members.

Either way, most teen guys in school probably WOULD brag about getting laid by an Aunt or cousin or female teacher because between 16 and 18, the guys had hormones pouring out of their ears! Remember guys getting hard-ons in class over probably nothing? Teens at the beach covering their laps with towels because just LOOKING at the girls cause obvious erections? The old jokes about something getting in the way of the steering wheel when they got old enough to drive? Jokes about girls reaching over and grabbing the ‘wrong shift lever’?

In old times, historically, teens were having consensual sex nearly as soon as they could.

And I think you overestimate the powers of sex: couldn’t your best friend have given you self confidence and support and affection without having sex with you until you turned eighteen? Would this have crippled your emotional growth?

I don’t know, but I do know many, many a guy who was so frustrated over not being able to have sex until they were 20 or 21, that they still grumble about it today, while those who had sex between 16 and 18 look back on it fondly. Actually, I don’t know ANY guys who, even today in their 40s and 50s, do not fondly look back on their very first act of intercourse.

Now, all bullshit aside, I know that if someone had proposed something like the above statement to me in lieu of sex at 16 or 17, I’d have been pissed. Many women I know had sex in their teens and very few regret it, seem scarred by it, have been left emotional cripples because of it or want to yell molestation if the guy was older.

I also think that some of the current ‘molestation’ is because of the massive, massive amount of adult assurances that almost ANY sex before the age of 20 is considered molestation. Remember the first grader who kissed a girl on the cheek in school and was expelled for ‘sexual molestation’?

I think they went too far there. What sexual molestation? At 6, I don’t think even the kids weenie could stand up and if it did, he’d have no understanding as to why.

Hell, I remember Boy Scouts camping in coed camp grounds and groups of them sneaking out at night to try to find the girls sites so they could possibly see some girl scout in her underwear or ---- ACTUALLY NUDE! In 7th grade, around age 12 or 13, I recall a girl in school who was already screwing the ‘big men on campus’ and many guys and girls were already finding ways to buy condoms, through friends, big brothers or stealing them from Mom and dad.

Now, today I can open my high school yearbook, well over 20 years old, look back at the pictures of girls who steamed me up back then and then look at year book pictures from the 90s – and, cripes! What a difference! Guys and girls don’t look like the dorks of yesteryear. The girls especially seem to develop much more quickly and I can understand the pressure on guys today.

Hell, I visited a lady friends house a couple of years ago and she had some very attractive female friends over, who were kicking back and drinking some beers with her and I figured that the girls were in their early 20s. From the way they looked and acted, and I actually got a bit steamed up because they looked good! I was astonished to find out later that they were all of 16! I couldn’t tell!

I’ve heard many a story from guys who have met some cute chick in a bar or somewhere, had sex with them and were stunned to later find out that the girl was under age! Now days, guys really worry over such encounters because the girl can get pissed off at them and yell rape, which can get them into more hot water than ever before.

I frown heavily on forced child molestation. I frown heavily even on consensual sex with a child under the age of 13. By 13, many girls are actively seductive and experiencing urges like many guys. Others have commented that by 13, the girls are seeking out older guys because boys their own age are looked on as ‘immature.’ I frown heavily on guys, say like 22 or 25. deliberately seeking out susceptible girls of 13 - 16 to have sex with because by then, they are manipulating, in my opinion, the kid.

I dunno. I grew up in the 60s, with the sexual revolution, when molestation was done by ‘dirty old men’ or gutter drunks and ‘make love, not war’ was the slogan of the day. I recall being a frustrated teen until I had my first real sexual experience, and recall how desperate I was to get laid – along with nearly every other guy in my class. Plus, I never have forgotten that first real encounter.

Today, I figure that molestation is a blanket statement, applied in panic and people are afraid to define it because of what others might think. I mean, look where it all started – years ago in that day care school, where almost all of the employees went to jail for ‘molestation’ and, after they had been drawn and quartered, humiliated and slandered, their business closed and monies spent, it turned out that the two girls who started it all, were talked into it by a grand mother who wanted to get custody of her grandchildren by trying to make the parents look incompetent by ‘endangering’ the kids. It turned out to all be bullshit.

And it was also discovered that kids will lie for no reason what so ever! It was discovered that parents, police and professionals were unwittingly influencing the kids to say what they wanted them to say and that was the beginning of the ‘repressed memory’ farce. The general public rose up in such a savage mass that the local cops HAD to get convictions.

Today, most of those initial people convicted have had their convictions dropped and have been released. Some are still in jail because of legal crap, even though it is generally felt that they also were innocent. The two girls, now adults, refuse to talk about it anymore and the grandmother, who looked like some white trash old lady, from the beginning refused to state that what she had done.

Now, I have no explanation about why there is an increase of molestation and its not just because people are reporting it more. I’m concerned about the snatching of children for sex and the frequent killing of them afterwards. I still lean heavily towards the ‘rats in the rat city’ example.


Mark
“Think of it as Evolution in action.”

On the contrary. What I am proposing is making decisions on the basis of whether or not any harm was done. You are proposing making decisions based on the people’s relative ages, which are not necessarily connected to their maturity. How is this not arbitrary?

Let me be clear.

I don’t see what’s so difficult about this. I have never been sexually molested in my life. What I did was to choose to have sex with a (at the time) twenty-one-year-old man, when I was aged 16.

What certain people are proposing is to define this non-molestation as molestation because he was older than me. Can’t anyone see how this ignores reality? It seems to me that for someone to have been molested, they have to have been, well, molested. How can something be a crime when the “victim” doesn’t agree that s/he was harmed in any way (knowing full well what happened)?

I’m still waiting for someone to respond to my posed question: What do you do if the perpetrators are children themselves? (12 and under)

Okay, yes, I am still officially Ruffian, but for sake of continuity in this thread I’m still posting under my old s/n.


I used to think the world was against me. Now I know better. Some of the smaller countries are neutral.

Laura’s Stuff and Things

There is nothing wrong with having sex if both parties want it from each other, but if an older man or woman suggests it to someone younger, sometimes the younger person will say yes because he or she is afraid what might happen is they said no. There are porn rings out there that look for kids to kidnap to bring into these sex rings. Most people don’t even know about sick stuff like this that goes on in this world.
I look back to when I was a young boy, and there is no way in hell I would have had sex with a relative.
Now the hot (chick) lady that worked at the little corner store, I would have jump at the chance to even see he naked. I was too young but all the guys swore she would have done it with them if they would have asked her. We were about 12 or 13 and I think she was in her 20s.
That word chick must really show my age.

STAY STRONG

Good question, LauraRae.
Some people think we should treat them like adults, but on the other hand, will doing so change them?
It is a hard question to answer. I think they should be punished somehow. Like doing some time in a juvenile center, or do these kids under the age of 12 know how bad this is? When I was young, I knew anything like this was wrong. Maybe it was my mom and dad that told me about perpetrators in this world, and they come in all shapes, sizes and age. Inform your kids about anything that can hurt them, they are never too young to start talking to them about anything. The younger the better.


STAY STRONG

You’re going nuts. Put a kid in juvie for playing doctor? I don’t think so.

I would like to remind the posters that MOJO LIZARD has threatened both Konrad, and Guanolad (in Stoidela’s joke post-Mpsims).

I would like to repeat my earlier assertion that he should be banned.

(Serlin is a weenie, so are lots of others…but hte difference is that they dont threatenanyone.

Moderator…
*MODERATOR??[/i
]

Matt said:
“What I am proposing is making decisions on the basis of whether or not any harm was done. You are proposing making decisions based on the people’s relative ages, which are not necessarily connected to their maturity. How is this not arbitrary?”

Of coursae it is arbitrary–it has to be. We can not evaluate people’s maturity on a case by case basis in regards to sex any more than we can evaluate maturity on a case by case basis for issuing credit cards or voting rights or whatever. I know people who are forty years old and honestly probably not mature enough to give meaningful consent; I am willing to accept that their might be 15 year olds who are mature enough to do so. However, we have to pick an arbitrary, concrete, definable standard: within a specific relationship no one is qualified to determine if the adolecent is “mature enough” to have sex; whether or not a relationship is legal or a crime would be indeterminate unless charges were brought, and then a psychatrist evaluated both people to determine if harm had been done and if the adult should have been able to see harm coming. That is too convouluted to be practical, and wide open to abuse–after all, every relationship that ends badly is harmful–how does one determine what is normal relationship harm and harm brought on by a minor’s lack of maturity and reason?

We have to have an arbitrary standard, and age makes the most sense–sure, some people on both sides and going to be misclassified, but there is no way around that that I can see. And I would rather wee as a society misclassify some adults as children than misclassify children as adults.

Excuse me, Matt, but the kids who abused me were not “playing doctor.” I was their subject to probe and mock, sure, but I was not “in” on their sadistic game. I was their target.

I was pissed on, made to eat waste, stripped naked, poked, touched, threatened, spat on, stabbed (with a pencil, in class no less–and the teacher overlooked it), teased and made a social abberration in my neighborhood. I was the whispered joke of my community–classmates would say with scorn to me, “I know what you did.” Yes, what I did. As if I was given a choice. As if I wanted those years in my life. As if a six year old could resist one twice her age and size.

JV may be harsh for a child, but do not insult me by suggesting an unsupervised prepubescent child is incapable of such warped behavior that would require punishment. Sometimes it isn’t just “playing doctor.”


I used to think the world was against me. Now I know better. Some of the smaller countries are neutral.

Laura’s Stuff and Things

coldfire: what can i say, i was raised in arkansas. bet that clears up a lot of confusion about me. lol! :-p

Pit


The ever insensitive, politically incorrect PitBullDawg. Political correctness is a disease. Cure it with the truth.

How to Handle Sexual Predators
by Andrew Vachss
originally published in
Divina Genao was born about seven years ago, by all accounts to a warm, loving
family. The life they planned for her was snuffed out by a predator – a predator who
should never have been uncaged.

Conrad Jeffrey, age 40, was charged with sexual assault of a minor, a 14-year-old girl. Allowed to plea bargain to mere weapons possession and criminal restraint, he
was released after serving only a portion of a five-year sentence.

Just six weeks after his release, he snatched little Divina from a crowded street and fled to his furnished room in the neighborhood. By the time the police knocked down his door, the child was dead.

The sexual psychopath has continued to confound society for hundreds of years.
Unremorseful, relentless, and apparently unamenable to rehabilitation, this monster
in human form has induced more debate than solutions. One currently fashionable
solution is the “sexual predator law” that now exists in Washington State.

Would this law have saved Divina? Most likely not. The sexual predator laws are,
essentially, a form of postsentence civil commitment.

When an offender has served his (or her) full sentence, he is evaluated to determine
if he is presently dangerous to society. If such a finding is made, the offender may be
retained until pronounced safe to walk among us.

        Flawed Protection

Even leaving aside the (considerable) civil liberties issues of retaining a prisoner past
the completion of his sentence, the sexual predator laws will ultimately fail to protect
society. That is because they are founded on the same basic conceit as is a parole
board, to wit, that a group of individuals can predict future conduct.

This conceit has, tragically, proven to be one we can no longer afford – the body
counts tell us otherwise. Simply put, if a parole board believed that Jeffrey was safe
to release, would not that same group have failed to retain him for commitment under
a sexual predator law?

The sexual predator laws areas illusory as a sentence of 150 years (with parole
eligibility attaching after only 10). That is, they are media-genic, but lack teeth; they satisfy the public with a false promise of safety, but deliver much less.

Arthur Shawcross killed at least one child. Allowed to plea bargain down to
manslaughter, he was sentenced to an indefinite term of up to 25 years.

Despite an original diagnosis that was highly indicative of dangerousness, he
eventually persuaded the parole board to release him. Shawcross killed at least 11
women before he was again incarcerated, this time for life.

The public may be fooled by the appearance of lengthy prison sentences, but
predators know the truth.

The solution is simple. Sex offenders must be sentenced for actual criminal conduct,
not some plea-bargained distortion of the facts.

How is an overworked parole board to contend with rapists who have pleaded guilty
to burglary, or with child molesters who have pleaded to endangering the welfare of a
child? All too often monsters slip through the bureaucratic cracks.

Would this negatively impact plea bargaining? Certainly. Offenders are well aware of the long term consequences of their negotiations, and equally aware how quickly we forget. Indeed, if sexual predator laws were passed fewer offenders would plead
guilty anyway, fearing that the promised sentence could be extended at some later date.

Would this cost more money? Initially, yes. We would need the resources to try
those cases that cannot be settled – we would need more judges, prosecutors,
defense counsel for the indigent, and all the related costs.

Would it cost more in the long run? Emphatically no! The criminal justice costs of investigation, detection, apprehension, and trial for re-offenders is enormous. And thecost in human lives and souls is incalculable.

This recommendation actual-criminal-conduct sentencing is not intended as a
general prescription. It would be properly applied only to the predator: the serial rapist,the chronic child molester, the serial sadist – individuals whose crimes should never be euphemized by the criminal justice system.

And such a recommendation must carry with it the corollary of appropriate sentencing. Forcing individuals to plead guilty (or go to trial) on actual criminal conduct is meaningless if they can sentence bargain instead.

Therefore, the law must provide for irreducible minimum sentences for certain types of crime, and life sentences
without a possibility of parole for the chronic, calcified, repetitive (or escalating) offender.

Does such a recommendation fly in the face of the much-vaunted goal of rehabilitation? Yes, in that it acknowledges that there are some sociopathic human beings for whom rehabilitation is not possible. And, true, it
would remove motivation from those so sentenced. They would have little incentive to join therapy groups or take up oil painting knowing that no parole board would ever have the opportunity to be impressed with their achievements.

         Behavior is Truth

Acceptance of these recommendations requires two foundational beliefs on our part: behavior is the truth, and there are some individuals whose behavior we cannot change.For those who would argue that sexual predators are sick, the response is simply:
So where’s the cure? Unless and until rehabilitation of predators approaches the
medical model it purports to imitate – that is, to rehabilitate a broken arm so it returns to its former state of functioning – why should all society be the butt of bizarre (and life-threatening) experiments?

For too long the headlines have haunted us with the specter of a parole board
member expressing surprise and shock at the horrible deeds of an individual his
agency released. Such agencies always justify their actions by saying that they could
not predict future behavior. It is time to accept that statement as truth and to protect
ourselves accordingly.

There are individuals who are so toxic that their presence threatens us all. They
self-identify by their conduct. And we cannot protect ourselves from monsters by
calling them by another name.

If prison cannot rehabilitate, it can at least incapacitate. If we cannot transform sexual predators, we certainly can contain them.

A society that has no problem with life sentences for repetitive armed robbers (on
habitual-offender grounds), but on grounds that the sexual predator is sick permits
predatory pedophiles to serve serial alternative sentences until the offender reaches critical mass and kills, is itself sick in the classical sense by acting against self-interest.

Would we have to build new prisons to contain those committed to longer terms?
Probably not. And certainly not if we use creative and alternative sentencing options
for nonviolent offenders. Safety will never be a no-cost proposition, but we can at
least work to make it cost-effective.

As citizens, we have more than just a collection of rights. We have obligations, too.When it comes to the criminal justice system, we must regard ourselves as
participants, not mere recipients.

We are all consumers, and our tax dollars are the price (if not the cost). A society
that cares more about truth in packaging than it does about truth in sentencing is
hell-bent on its own eventual destruction.

There is an old saying about monsters that we ought to heed: You don’t know where
they’re going, but you can always tell where they’ve been. Once an offender has
shown us he has clearly embarked on the predator’s bloody road, it is our
responsibility to make that road a dead end.


STAY STRONG

MOJO LIZARD sez:

Yeah, there’s plenty of those. You can find them in the yellow pages.

It makes sense. After all, why pay some desperate teenage runaway to take pornographics pictures of her when you can make a complicated, fiendish, contrived conspiracy to kidnap young girls.

I know all this because I too was once a white slave trader. We would kidnap nubile young women from the English countryside, smuggle them to ports through an elaborate network run by chinamen and dope fiends and finally ship them to France where they would become prostitutes. Alternately, we could sell them to Arab oil-magnates. As my friend Haji says: For a white girl I will you give you a camel and many shekels.