I find it odd that my husband’s company is having a daytime, off-site luncheon, no spouses. They never invite spouses, but this year they considered it. However, most people don’t want to go to these events. They have very poor Boss/Employee relations.
They were promoting this as a really fun event, but they don’t pay you for your time at the party, so most people aren’t going. My husband says he can barely stand to work with them let alone socialize. Oh…and they were promoting dancing amongst the warehouse guys. Not that there’s anything wrong with that…
What sort of social event are you talking about? Would you have a party and invite only half of a couple? If you were getting married and only knew one half of a couple, would you just invite the one, and expect them to come without their SO?
Obviously, if it’s a group of girls getting together for lunch or a bachelor party, then sure, no SOs are going to be included, but if my husband got an invitation to some sort of social event, I would damn sure expect to be included on the invitation, too.
Not flaming, just looking for a little clarification.
What sort of social event are you talking about? Would you have a party and invite only half of a couple? If you were getting married and only knew one half of a couple, would you just invite the one, and expect them to come without their SO?
Obviously, if it’s a group of girls getting together for lunch or a bachelor party, then sure, no SOs are going to be included, but if my husband got an invitation to some sort of social event, I would damn sure expect to be included on the invitation, too.
Not flaming, just looking for a little clarification.
If I were having a party and knew one half of a couple much better than the other half or hadn’t met the other half, I would just invite the half of the couple that I knew well. I don’t see why I should invite people I don’t know to parties I throw. I want to see my friends and I also don’t want them to have to spend the evening ‘looking after’ their SO because they didn’t know anyone.
If I were getting married, it would depend on the size of the wedding and any financial restrictions I was having to work with. But, if it came down to it, I’d rather have 50 of my friends than 25 of my friends with SOs/spouses I didn’t know. I’m going to a friend’s wedding in a few weeks to which my SO wasn’t invited due to financial considerations and I don’t have a problem with that at all.
Of course, often I would count my friends’ SOs/spouses as friends in their own right at which point they would get invited places, but I see no problem with treating my friends as the individuals that they are and inviting them to things/places/parties without their “other halves”. Similarly, I feel that I’m an individual too and while I’ll take my SO to social events I think he’d enjoy and I would enjoy being at with him, there are times when I just want to be by myself with my friends and I think that’s fine too.
That’s very true. My fiance and I actually detest going to any kind of office party, and it’s especially bad if we have to go alone (which we usually do since we live three states away for another month). Neither of us are particularly outgoing people, and if one of our offices had a ‘no spouses’ party, chances are we’d refuse to go, both of us. Not because of the rule - it’s the company’s party, their rules - but because neither of us is entirely comfortable at a party and we prefer having one another’s company at such events. It’s not a trust issue. I trust him implicitly and I know he trusts me in the same way. It’s a ‘Oh, God, we have to go to this party. I’m glad you’ll be there so I don’t have to suffer through it alone.’.
It’s unclear whether or not the SO would be excluded or just not invited, here.
I realize I’m probably not going to change your mind, but one of the best ways to get to know other people is to reach beyond your immediate comfort/friend level. That includes getting to know SO’s, etc. Also, many SO’s, when invited to party, don’t really need “looking after” and are capable of making their own coversation and branching out.
Not to speak for Sappho, but it sounds like the SOs are just not invited.
No offense, but that sounds rather rude.
If you have a party, and you know someone who is married/in a committed relationship/whatever they’re calling it, and you only invite one half of the couple … sorry, but I think that’s just incredibly rude. I would never dream of inviting just half of a couple to a social event like a party.
“Hey, Mary, can you come to a party? But I’m not inviting your husband Bob, because I don’t know him very well, and you’d have to be looking after him all night, and you’d have more fun without him, okay?”
I don’t think so.
A wedding, dealing with a limited budget, yeah, that’s a touchy subject. I think if the person is married or in a committed relationship, you are supposed to invite them as a couple, even if you don’t know the other half, budget be damned.
If someone is single or you’re not sure of their relationship status, you can choose to invite them “and guest.” Or you can just invite them alone.
"Hi! I am having a great party with all the people I know. Well see I don’t know your wife so she isn’t invited. Please don’t bring her. " I am assuming that it would be made clear that the spouse who the person doesn’t know is not invited.
Oh I think that goes beyond rude. I know women who would do that but they are also the type who go after married men.
I woudl not attend if my boyfriend was not invited and he feels the same way.
Yes having a company party without spouses invited is rude (the rest I don’t know about…I don’t think that a significant needs to be invited. It is nice but optional. Now to a personal party, that’s different) Considering the girls in the office are planning, I would wonder.
Kudos to your husband for not attending. I think he is a good man and can be trusted.
Perhaps I didn’t make it quite clear, but I do invite SOs to social events for the most part so I do get to know them, it’s just that sometimes it’s nice when my friends can get together without them.
Bibliocat -
If you think it’s rude, you think it’s rude. The friends in question have never been offended though, because when it’s phrased sensitively it comes across as I intend it - as being a compliment to them because I wish for their company as an individual. As I said above, I don’t do this all the time but just from time to time (perhaps one party in six) so as to get see them on their own socially rather than as one half of a ‘unit’. They know full well that I have no problem with their SOs/spouses because I usually invite them and they also know that I’m not doing this to encourage them to cheat. I don’t really understand why you think it’s rude to treat close friends of mine as individuals as well as couples (it’s not an either/or thing, as I do do both), but we can just agree to disagree.
Rereading, I was a bit overemphatic in my first reply to Bibliocat. I meant more that I didn’t think it was necessary for me to invite SOs in situations like that not that I would always not invite them as it seemed to come across.
I would like to chime in with another minority report. Even after reading Wordman’s very eloquent and well-thought out agruments, I am remain unconvined that a work event should include spouses.
Even though it is a social, off-hours event, it remains a work event. Where I work, spouses are not invited to such events, and that is fine with me (and also Mr. Del). I understand that some companies do invite spouses, that is also fine with me. I honestly don’t think there is a right way or a wrong way to go about doing this, as long as it is fair. I would be upset, for example, if spouses were included but same sex domestic partners were excluded.
In the end, it comes down to the culture of that particular workplace. Some places have long traditions of parties with spouses, others do not. Maybe they can change if people would like a switch, but if not enough people want it, then why bother? I think this is true whether we are talking about switching from no spouses to spouses, or the other way 'round.
Cost is another factor. I know it is a factor where I work. Doubling your guest list is a big expense. Even if the company is doing well, and appears to be able to afford it, decisions about how money is spent are not always obvious. I think it is a little uninformed for someone to say “oh, they can afford it!” – well they probably can, but is that really the best way to spend the money? Whether or not I personally think that is the best way to spend the money, at the end of the day I’m not the person at my office who makes those decisions, and it’s not usually a process that’s opened up to the voice of the people.
If an employee feels very strongly about the spouse issue, and wants to propose a change, I think he/she should raise the question, as long as 1. that person volunteers to be on the organizing committee if the change is going to create additional work, and 2. if most coworkers don’t agree with a change, that the person (and his/her spouse) accept that gracefully.
Dinner party w/o spouse leads to drinking which leads to…dancing which leads to…sex which leads to…divorce… which leads to messed up kids…which leads to the downfall of society…and the end of the universe. Boy, there’s a slippery slope! Do you let your husband pick out his own clothes? You never know, if he goes to work looking too good one day that nubile office worker might jump his junk and then…point being, you can’t be there all the time. Either you trust him, or you don’t trust him. If you trust him except at dinner parties when you aren’t there, then you don’t trust him.
In short, I think if you truly trust your husband, then yes, you are being completely unreasonable. If he doesn’t want to go, then that is fine. If he wants to go, but you don’t want him to go because he is going to be out of your sight for two hours, then I think you need to look at exactly why you think you need to be nervous.
And what is the big deal about dancing? What is this, the1950s? Dancing does not invariably lead to sex.
With women, there isn’t any difference between thinking and doing. I think that if you said to your wife you are married and not dead that you would probably be dead…soon.
And yes, I do think that men are weak and many times cannot resist if tempted. And I think a man who is serious about not hurting his wife or children or even risking divorce will purposely stay out of situations that might be dangerous. A large majority of men will admit to an affair during their marriage; this speaks for itself. This consideration for someone you love will pay great rewards in your relationship. This stuff about it being healthy to flirt with someone of the opposite sex when you are married is crap. complete and total crap. If you love someone and are mature and have dedicated yourself to the marriage you don’t look upon marriage as something that prevents you from acting like you are single. If you want to act like you are single, don’t get married. There are enough children without both parents in this world. And it is not a matter of trust. It’s a matter of dedication to the relationship and not ever putting it at risk for something as silly as some stupid party.
So married men have to wave their wedding rings at any would-be flirters like you’d wave a crucifix at Dracula? Jeez, what a sad, lonely existence they must lead. If I couldn’t trust my potential spouse unsupervised at a party, I sure as hell wouldn’t marry them.
and I just want to say that company parties are usually very dull, I’ve had to go to some really boring parties.
I think you should have the choice to go, but since you don’t, I think that you should accept it as hamelss and give your spouse the option, and if he truly doesn’t want to go, then great. but it seems like you feel like you are making him stay home. So give him the option, so that when he says no, you can feel like you at least left it up to him, and you have no guilt.
and if you’ve already done that, then… great. what’s the problem?
IMO, if it’s in business hours, no partners should be invited. If it’s outside of business hours (hence unpaid), I would expect partners to be invited. Whether they choose to invite partners or not, is of course up to the hosts.
I would not mind if my partner went to a work function without me. Hell, I wouldn’t mind if he went to a strip joint without me. I trust him implicitly. OTOH, I would not attend a work function outside of business hours that my partner wasn’t invited to simply because I spend enough damn time at work anyway, and given the choice between spending time with my partner and more time with work colleagues, it’s a bit of a no-brainer to me.
I really appreciate everyone’s posts, and it definitely has helped me think through this. I don’t really have much to add by way of “responding” because I think I’ve covered how I feel on the subject in my posts. I obviously disagree with some points presented but my response is already covered with what I’ve written. I don’t feel any differently.
First - thanks to delphica and Missy2U for your kind words - I appreciate it.
Now - onto the topic at hand. But again, I would argue, there are several topics happening and their overlaps are leading to confusion - topics that I can see include:
Is it okay for a person in a social/home situation to invite friends but not their spouse out for an event?
When should spouses be included at work functions?
I am sure there are others, but those come to mind…
IMHO:
If there is an “old gang” of friends (single sex or mixed, doesn’t matter to me), or there is a special occasion like a traditional Boys’ or Girls’ weekend, then, sure - go for it. It is healthy to have a Girls’ Night Out or something. I play poker with a few buddies regularly. IMHO, if it is something more formal - say like a holiday party - I would be very surprised if the thrower of the party tried to exclude spouses and would not go. If there is a history of something sexual in the group - e.g., a single sex gang that goes to strip clubs or a mixed group that dated amongst each other, I would expect the involved spouse to be up front and the two in the relationship can decide if there are any issues and how to resolve them - that has become a personal, relationship issue, not a matter of social etiquette and is their business.
As for when a spouse should be invited to a work-based function - again, if the event is during work hours, involves celebrating a specific team event, or involves doing actual work, then the event is primarily a work event and it is okay and proper to not invite spouses. If the gathering is primarily a social gathering that happens to be organized amongst work personnel - e.g., is off hours, has no work component to it, is focused on celebrating a social/cultural event like a holiday or is a SuperBowl party or something, involves social activities like swimming or dancing - then it is not a work event, per se, but a social event involving work personnel and it is proper - from a social etiquette standpoint - to invite spouses. Period. End of story.
Any arguments I have read to the contrary thus far haven’t held water.
It’s expensive to invite spouses? The event should be scaled to be something that can be afforded with spouses included - hold a pot luck, fercrissake.
Spouses should trust their spouses and/or may not want to come? This isn’t about trust - that is a Relationship issue - this is about Social Propriety and it is downright rude to exclude spouses - and, as I have said before, if the other spouse does not want to attend, it sould be their choice.
Lots of high-tech companies do this - so? That doesn’t make it right. If they are working their people to all hours, and many of them are lacking a social life for a variety of reasons, so the more the company can do to provide one is fine, but for those employees who have spouses, it is simply inappropriate and rude to not allow them to bring spouses.
Seriously - think about this - this is basic stuff. Again, please differentiate between Relationship/Trust issues and what is appropriate in social settings. I think BiblioCat’s and Avabeth’s examples are spot on.
I think WordMan has hit on the problem, which is the blurring of the line between ‘business’ and ‘social’.
You invite spouses to ‘social’. You don’t invite them to ‘business’.
Businesses often try to pretend that “we are all one big happy family”, as if we worked together because we were friends. This is unfortunate, because
[ul][li]It isn’t true. I like some of my co-workers, feel neutral about others, dislike some others, and have never exchanged two words with others. I work with them because we are all trying to achieve the same thing, which is to do our jobs. [/li][li]If the company stakes a claim to your off-work hours for ‘social’ events, and derive a business benefit from it (team-building), then they tend to expand that claim so that every hour of your day is at their disposal. [/li][li]Lines of authority tend to be confused. I never “let my hair down” at a business function as I might at a social function with real friends. Maybe I danced with the secretary Saturday night - she is still in trouble if my mail doesn’t go out first thing Monday morning. [/li][li]My job makes me spend too much time away from the Lovely and Talented Mrs. Shodan and the little Shodan-ettes already. I do not choose to spend more of my ‘social’ time away from them, even if my boss expects it. [/li][li]Entertaining clients, “team building”, keeping the guys happy and motivated - these are business functions. If I have fun doing these functions, great, but that is not the primary goal. Social functions are where I have fun. [/ul] [/li]
YMMV. I am not generally a ‘party’ person with people I do not already know well.