The rendition program was illegal because of laws ratified domestically like the UN convention against torture. A legitimate investigation into torture would’ve brought down Clinton, Gore and a lot of high ranking democrats. Hence Obama’s bullshit about ‘lets look forwards, not backwards’.
So hard to predict what Trump will do. There are good arguments on both side of this issue. One argument in opposition is that he does seem to be having fun now. I originally thought he’d give up because it wasn’t any fun. But he appears to have found his groove, and he’s digging this whole presidenting thing.
Still, I think the stronger argument is that his legal issues have left him very exposed in ways he does not want to be exposed and he’ll probably figure that ex-President Trump can really cash in BIG LEAGUE after Jan 21, 2021.
I can’t believe he is enjoyng this. I’ve had consequential hearings and stuff to go to and it’s on your mind all the time. If he is comfortable this way it’s a by-product of his pathology. I think he is in too much peril to cash in after he is out of office though. I can’t believe Mueller will be working on this long enough to let 2020 be an issue, and I think Mueller will have donalds resignation as a goal.
Because the question of whether a sitting president can be indicted is unsettled law. We’ve never had to test it and I’m sad we’re in a situation where we may have to test it now.
If he can’t be indicted except as an unindicted co-conspirator – and this is an argument that is sure to be made – then the only remedy for his criminal acts while he remains in office is impeachment and removal from office, at which point he can be prosecuted.
Impeachment in the House is likely after the mid-terms. Removal by the Senate is a long shot, unless Mueller’s investigation is able to show such undeniable, egregious criminal behavior that the public is outraged enough to demand removal by their Senators. This could happen, and it is exactly why Trump and his minions are working so hard to poison the Mueller well.
In my opinion, no “president” ever needed to be impeached and removed from office more than this one. His abuses of the office are widespread, serious and appalling. I believe he will eventually be prosecuted for his many crimes but am doubtful this will occur until he has left office – which is why I think he’ll do anything and everything to stay where he believes he is above the law.
The only way to answer this is to ask the following question (after examining all of its nuances): “In thump’s own eyes, would running again make him a winner or a loser?”
Logic, reason, being sensible, drawing appropriate conclusions from past, present, or potential future events-- none of these considerations is relevant. It’s black/white: winner/loser. He HAS to see himself as a winner.
The million-dollar question (give or take a $) is one I asked many months ago: How can thump leave office (either voluntarily or involuntarily) and still be able to consider HIMSELF a winner and be seen as a winner by his sycophants? “I’ve accomplished everything I wanted to do” is NOT enough of a win for him. It has to be more glorifying than that, more self-aggrandizing than that… more grandiose. It has to be some kind of pinnacle, peak, apotheosis. He cannot be defeated, but he can be tricked, scammed, or bamboozled.
I can’t imagine it because I’m not a fantasy novelist. Anyone?
I could see him quitting in term 2 if he gets to a 2nd term. That way he could declare he won twice and had nothing left to prove.
I think the law will be moving faster than the countdown to 2020. We have to see what it looks like to be running with that baggage. It sounds ugly. I can’t wait for the mother goose stuff to be over and donalds rubber hits the road so to speak. I feel like we are in a fantasy bubble of this one idiots invincibility.
Goddamn, I hope so.
I believe Mueller is tying up as many loose ends as possible in his case before taking his kill shot. Everything we know about him is that he remains preternaturally calm under fire, is smart and disciplined to a jaw-dropping extent, doesn’t give a shit what’s being said about him and will keep his eye on the ball. There is no way he sacrificed all he has in public service to his FBI and his nation, just to see it go down the tubes at the tiny hands of this disgusting individual who occupies his office due only to the machinations of Putin.
Mueller is the anti-Trump. When he lets fly, it will be magnificent to behold. I hate having to wait, but I am certain he has good reasons for his approach and his delay.
I am thinking “sealed indictments” have been filed. I have a feeling that donald is going to be surprised at the resilience of democracy. You got to think Mueller takes donalds idiotic speech as “motivation” and that his thoughts aren’t much different from ours about it. Can’t wait for pardon showdown at the OK corral. The unintended consequences are going to be spectacular.
If he had a real shot at losing the party’s nomination, I think he’d brag about how he fixed everything and we didn’t need him any more and let the new guy run and go sulk on FOX news 24/7 about how mean and unfair the liberals were.
But I don’t think anyone is going to challenge him on the right.
It’s so hard to make guesses because there are too many unknown unknowns and known unknowns. We know he’s dirty and we know the least amount of dirty he is, but we don’t know how far it deep that well is. There are things out there we can’t even imagine that are probably sitting on Mueller’s desk. Or Putin’s. The elections this November are going to change things wildly. I feel like we’re all holding our breath till then. Blue tsunami? Do as much damage as he can between November and January. Red holds back the blue wave? Party like it’s 1999. Fire Mueller. Deport everyone. A draw or one party just barely holding on to power? Who knows.
I’m not going to call anyone “deluded”, but I am certain that he will seek (and win) re-election.
First they said that Trump wouldn’t even run at all because it would require him to disclose his finances. When it became abundantly clear that he just didn’t give a fuck about that and was running anyway, they said he’d never be a viable candidate; the party would freeze him out. He’d never be able to beat political insiders like Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz. Then in the primary, we were all told there was no way in hell he’d ever be taken seriously; then when he started knocking off all the other candidates, we were told the party establishment would somehow find a way to deny him the nomination and that he’d never get the votes necessary to be the nominee; then we were all told that Hillary would mop the floor with him and he’d lose in a landslide.
I think it’s safe to say that the old books have been thrown out, we’ve entered a new and very different political culture, and it’s time to expect the unexpected.
Sadly, I agree.
So there’s no such thing as conventional wisdom or expectations anymore? Okay, then by 2020 we will have at least two elected Congresspeople who campaign on actively murdering minorities and gays. They’ll be elected from Southern California and Seattle in landslides. Oklahoma will elect a horse. Maine will elect a broom with a face painted on it. In Trump’s win, he will murder the Democratic candidate live during the second debate.
Hey, everything’s possible now, right?
How will he cobble together the votes? Will he get them the same way he got them last time? I thought there was no rulebook. Except for that he will reverse demography and current conditions to win again? Show me the math.
The stuff that has happened in the last year seemed impossible a year and a half ago, didn’t it?
Which is exactly what Trump and the Trumpists need you to believe. It is frustrating and demoralizing sometimes, but it is not futile.
What math is there to show you? He could win again by winning most of the states he won last time. That wouldn’t be a particularly shocking result for people outside of liberal echo chambers.
It’s never a good time to abandon critical thinking in favor of recency.
Because this time it will be with the benefit of having lived 2016. It’s a lot different. I need to see some intelligent talk about who he keeps and who he loses, who died, and deal with his potential legal challenges. There is plenty to stop him from running again. Where is analysis of potential blackmail, skeletons, lawyers etc? OMG lets talk real world.
This state of affairs doesn’t look like 2016 for many reason. There is a shame-free bubble going on now that could pop any time.
He started campaigning for 2020 on Jan. 20 2017.
He loves campaigning in front of cheering crowds, and campaigning has been a big money maker for him, since, though self dealing, he can use his campaign funds as his own personal piggy bank.
Unless things go so far south that he is universally reviled on both sides of the aisle to the point that he can’t raise a cheering crowd of supporters, he’ll be back in 2020.