It sure doesn’t sound like a spiritually nurturing environment. I don’t belong to any religion or church and I have a variety of friends. I have people I can share spiritual moments with and I occasional go to a local Bahai center to share in the music and worship.
It’s hard to be encouraged on the spiritual path if you’re surrounded by people who just aren’t interested. You might look for some support outside your new living arrangement.
I really don’t think it’s the second hand pot smoke. But I do believe it is the distractions your room mates cause that keeps you from focusing your consciousness into the deeper levels of your being. Some people bring energy to others, while some take energy from others. This could be a very challenging situation for you. With practice you may be able to shut out the negative clamor and reach the deeper levels you seek, but only if your room mates will not interfer by touching or yelling at you. What you need is quiet, and solitude for your writings. Is there a library to spend some time in, or some other peaceful place for contemplation? In the mean time I would enjoy hearing about your experiences.
Then I would point out that it would be a journey without recognizable end. If we in our physical bodies are inseperably different from our true selves, then there is no way we can accurately recognise our true selves; our ideas on it will be too affected by those around us. On the other hand, if us physically and our true selves are not inseperably different, the chance comes that we may find our true selves without looking, and certainly you could not deride others as not being their true selves, as you’d have no proof.
On a more specific point, I don’t respect all life, because I don’t believe everything automatically deserves our respect, as i’m sure you’d agree. But then I don’t consider myself automatically worthy of respect; that you apparently think yourself so does explain rather a lot about your interactions here.
The memory isn’t lost to the moment, otherwise you’d stop playing. You may be playing out of your unconscious mind; just as we’re able to walk without actually having to consciously think about walking, if you have a high level of or lots of experience with a musical instrument or anything, really, you can find yourself playing it by habit and not as “right, I put my finger here, strum here”. The memory is still required, and if anything is more important as you not only remember the tune but all the times you have played it.
I’m sorry to hear about your mother; I’ve had relatives who had memory problems though not to that extent. I would say (and I truly mean no offense when I say this) that I imagine had she or you the choice you would generally have preferred the version of her that did remember you, even if it meant she would no longer have the repeated enjoyments of good news. But certainly I would say that in a situation like that the best thing to do is hide what frustration or pain you feel and try to stick with the moment - but with the knowledge that it is your memory of them that motivates you to do so above others.
Also, you have kids? I feel young. 
But those things can be done without a switching off of part of the brain. And I would say that it still has the problem of what else is being forgotten, or ignored, because the bad is being ignored? Plus the idea of what a correct balance is is for her being made in this altered state of balance; she’s judging the effectiveness of it by itself, and that’s a poor test for a measure.
That’s true, as I see it. But she speaks of pure left brain thought as a nirvana, and she certainly seem highly affected by her time with it. It seemed to me that she venerates the left brain much higher than she does the right; as if the left brain is the important part while the right brain is a disliked but unfortunetly necessary cog in the works. That she believes in a balance is required by her actions, but not in anything she says - she only really talks about the importance of one side of it.
Yes, i’d say it does mean that, but that’s a good thing. We should be able to recognise things about ourselves (even if it does lead to pretty unpleasant teenagehood ;)), otherwise we wouldn’t change.
I’d think about it like this. If I were raised in pre-WWII Germany, I could’ve ended up a happy Hitler Youth, and eventually a dedicated Nazi. That version of me is just as me as the one I actually am is; I don’t think either of them speak more to a true me, or that (as much as it would be nice) the Nazi me is somehow not actually a me. We are equally valid ourselves. But that doesn’t mean i’d want to be like that me, or like any me which I find unpleasant. I don’t believe there’s a real, perfect me out their that I need to improve myself until I reach; but I do want to improve myself, just for different reasons. Flaws and problems are contextual - they exist in that we often have a superior vision of ourselves that we compare ourselves to and find ourselves lacking, but I don’t think that those idealized goals of ourselves are truer than any other version. They’re what we’d like to be, not what we secretly, deeply are.
Ah, but I only value the me I am now because that’s the one I am. Actually being that person lends a lot of value to that particular me, but it could be beaten - for example, a drug addict might very well value a past them when they weren’t addicted as higher as their current selves, consider that to be the self for whom they should work to aid, rather than their current wants.
Generally i’m with you on religion, but I would say that those who worship a god or gods do often feel a connection between themselves and it/them. While I disagree it’s a real connection, I don’t deny that it is felt. And take** lekatt’s** God of love; it suffuses our entire existence, as I understand it.
Besides, who’s to say that such religions are superficial? I don’t believe that, in the grand scheme of things, the superficial is any more important or necessary than the deep. We may value it lower, but that doesn’t mean it actually has low value. As for upgrades… well, one of the few things I predict with pretty strong certainty is that in 100, 500 years an argument of this type would have someone with a very different concept of atheism and a practical universe against someone with a very different concept of spirituality and self as a part of others. Given past history, all our ideas probably need upgrading - what we think now will likely be looked on as quaintly as ancient or medieval beliefs are now.
Well, as I said I don’t think we can say that the current them is the one that is always given the most value. But I would certainly agree that she is herself all throughout those points. Whether she values herself after the experience as more than her beforehand is entirely in her own hands.
The problem of course is - which of her own hands?
I believe that we can have things we won’t admit to ourselves. Or things that we honestly do not see about ourselves. I would say it depends whether or not those things affect us even when we do not see them; if someone’s hidden greed which they do not realise they have influences their actions, I would say it is an actual part of their current self.
As to the importance of changing, the importance of understanding… I believe no things have innate value. I don’t believe that understanding how the world works or even how we work is inherently a valuable, worthwhile thing to do. I don’t believe we have any requirement to improve ourselves or others. For me, value is what is attributed by us to something subjectively. So is it important or valuable for us to do things? If we think it is, then for us it is.
I would say possibly it’s just the change of moving to a new place. Your mind is reworking itself to a new situation, new people. It can’t rely on some of the habitual options that it may use in a situation you were used to. It might last a while as you adjust, but then again it might not. Everyone reacts differently.
But I would say that perhaps it’s a good thing. You have to value the superficial to some extent to connect with people, and there’s a limited time in a new situation before people make up their minds or get into new routines. I’m not suggesting taking up pot-smoking or lazing about all day or anything like that, but you might as well take the opportunity to get to know them better. I’m with the other two in that you shouldn’t let this sneak up to you and make you forget about this, since you clearly value it highly. Don’t force yourself, but give yourself time and opportunity to find out whether or not you have to force it. But hey, if life’s a balancing act, the superficial is a part of that! 
I see what you mean. In the video when she was to far right brain she couldn’t talk or recognize numbers. That would eliminate playing guitar. I’m still looking at it from a balance of the two though so your comment about the unconscious mind rings true and music as well as other arts may be a good example. Listening to her again she speaks early on about how the left and right communicate. The right brain being in the moment and the left brain processing the past and what we have learned. Playing music the left brain must be feeding the information but the right is using it so fully in the moment that there’s no conscious effort or feeling of memory. {Until I forget the lyrics and embarrassment ensues}
No offense taken. I honestly can’t say whether I would have preferred it to be different. I can imagine some ideal I suppose in which she was healthy and alert and died peacefully in her sleep, but, the experience and how it has shaped my attitudes would be different so I can’t say it would be better. More than just hide my frustration, I found a way to completely let go of it and accept the situation as it was and find joy. When I stopped thinking left brain about how I wish things were, how they used to be, and wondering how we might get there again, I found Mom was still Mom and we could still enjoy our time together. I’d say that was a cooperation and balance of the two brains as well.
Again, right at the end I think her summary suggests a balance of the two.
Yes, but why is she stressing that? Her summary answers that question. If I ate too much protein and not enough vegetables someone might stress the importance of vegetables. That doesn’t mean I should ignore protein or that vegetables are better. She also calls her nirvana experience La la land. I think there’s a reason she doesn’t include any ideas of life after death. She wants her experience to relate to the world we share right now.
,sniped some for space saving.
Agreed. We are who we are in this moment and we can change our course through an act of will. We may be pursuing a certain goal only to discover along the way that it’s not what we want after all.
<more snipping>
A different debate I suppose. My own POV is that religions that talk a lot about love but don’t focus on personal growth and behaviors changes are superficial. They seem to teach that if you believe the right doctrine god loves and forgives you and you don’t have to make much effort. Attending church and saying the right things are more important your actions in the every day world. Just a pet peeve of mine. I know it’s more complex than that.
I believe that we can have things we won’t admit to ourselves. Or things that we honestly do not see about ourselves. I would say it depends whether or not those things affect us even when we do not see them; if someone’s hidden greed which they do not realise they have influences their actions, I would say it is an actual part of their current self.
I can see that. Let me phrase it another way. It’s seems to me, and I may be projecting myself into this, that the very nature of man pushes us forward to address certain issues. The very network of the human race makes us place a value on certain things and explore them further. It isn’t always consistent but in some ways it is, and it’s always moving.
work calls.
I would say it tends to favour one side more than the other, rather than be a balance. But i’d agree with you that in some situations it’s better to act one way than another, or to think one way. “Living in the moment” isn’t always a bad thing, just as living in the past or future isn’t always good.
She’s saying the more of one, the better. A balance would be a matter of proportions, or even assigning “weight” or importance to one side over the other, as I believe she does (I just disagree with that weight). But this is just saying “More of this aspect = better”.
That’s true, but I think she does stress the left too much over the right. She doesn’t come right out and say that the right is bad, and it’s fair to assume in many cases that a person giving a talk will not necessary couch their terms in the most careful way. But I really do think that she isn’t just not talking about the right; I think she does give the left far more importance than I would, and that I think it deserves in comparison.
I can sympathise - I think a similar thing sometimes. In different terms, there seems to be a lot more talking than there is actual doing. I don’t mind evangelizing, but the best way to both promote one’s ideals and to live up to them is to be a paragon of them. But hey, on the other hand, the type of paragons of faith that get the news stories are the nutjobs, so it could very well be there are people who live like that out there.
I would agree, but I would attribute it more to a nature of intelligence rather than humanity per se. We have brains, and we have the social understanding from them to know that our actions affect others. So I would say we think because we can.
**Revenant Threshold
**
No comments other than to say thanks for a very interesting and thought provoking discussion. It’s appreciated. 
I’ve read the entire thread as my first straight dope experience.
Friedah35 - i would say you have had an experience very much of the form of Dr Jill with the stroke. A state of awareness. It is truly profound but perhaps only a first step?
It is clear that it has given you great insight. Living in that perpetual awareness is the path enlightenment.
The effect of your new environment on yourself is surely enough to show how fragile that state can be? Get out of there - that would be my advice.
Why don’t you consider yourself worth of respect, is it because you don’t respect all life? Without experiencing it, this is very hard to understand, you are a part of all life as Jill could clearly see in her experience. I am not sure enlightenment can be explained in words, it can only be felt.
When we where children there were a great many things we couldn’t understand, but as we grew up we began to understand these things. Now as adults there are still a great many things we don’t understand, by enlightenment we can understand more, and who is to say there is ever an end to more and more enlightenments and more and more understanding.
Interesting you should advise to “get out of there” when millions of people are trying to get in there. Alcoholics, drug addicts, and such want to feel high, peaceful and content, they will even kill themselves trying for that state of mind time after time. Spiritual folks use meditation, diets, affirmations and such to try to obtain it. Is it the next step in consciousness evolution? Most interesting subject.
By “get out of there” i meant the new living situation Friedah35 is in.
I’m not judging these people but i think if Friedah35 wants to focus on the ‘self’ the experience / attainment of enlightenment then the right environment will be important.
I write this from personal experience. I wouldn’t sanction getting high but it can be done in a very cheap and pointless fashion and …
… sounds just that cheap and pointless fashion.
Next step of consciousness evolution could be in the direction of the state often referred to as ‘enlightenment’. Let’s hope so. Species wise we need some step which will bring empathy to the fore…
And yet you chose to post.
Hi
I admit that I think the needing to ask the question “am I enlightened” is the equivilent of asking “How much does it cost?”… I mean… if you need to ask…
This is how I see it…
The universe is very complex. Any suffienciently complex system becomes self aware. We are just elements of that self awareness. Being aware of that function is what I call the beginnings of enlightenment… How you as an element of the universe’s self awareness deals with that is a mark/measure of your enlightenment… I am, for my part, learning how to deal with it in what I consider a fair and just manner. So I try to experience what ever the universe has to offer in fair and ethical manner , meaning that I will do my best to see all, do all, in any manner that does the least harm to other observers of this unfolding wonderland.
Best regards
FML
I think you have a good way of doing things, we need all the ethics we can muster if we are to have a decent place to live.
I misunderstood what you were saying, and I agree he should get out if possible.
Since it has nothing to do with paint, I will have to disagree.
If everyone could somehow have the same experience as Jill did, there would never be another war fought on planet earth. I think understanding enlightenment, or the expansion of consciousness is a very important issue.
Are you enlightened?
If you get any satisfaction whatsoever from any one of us saying that you are, then you aren’t.
Other than that I can’t tell you. I don’t know if I could tell you whether or not you are enlightened if this thread went on for another 1,000 pages (please don’t) I don’t even know if I am enlightened and I’ve been talking to myself for 31 years.
What I do know I know is so small compared to the amount I would like to know/be sure of.
I know that the me that I am now was created when my first child was born, and then again to a much smaller extent re-created with my younger one.
I know that any questions I have or have ever had about my own faith journey or enlightenment or walk with Jesus or whatever I call it at different times pales in comparison to my BIG QUESTION; How am I helping others? How am I loving my children and my husband? Do I love my neighbors as myself? Was I a good and loving daughter to my Mother while she lived? Do I do enough to help starving and sick children in the world? Do I help achieve justice for the downtrodden? That I cannot yet answer these questions positively and with a happy knowledge of having done my best to be a benefit and a blessing to others takes a huge precedence over my own questions of personal enlightenment.
You seem nice, and others on this thread seem nice, and more than that, wise and intelligent in all of your own definitions, and I wish you all well as I am sure you do for me. Good luck, Friedah35, you are very young yet.
P.S. If any of you are wondering, I haven’t smoked pot for about 10 years, what with Motherhood and everything, when these kids are grown and out of the house, I’m going to go nuts, self awareness and enlightenment be damned.
I don’t know. I was at the Dalai Lama event at the University of Michigan. The Dalai Lama gave a two-day lecture and prayer service. At the end a little girl said, “Good bye Dalai Lama”.
That little girl, right then and there, attained instant enlightenment.