Am I the only one who didn't like Brokeback Mountain?

Cafe Society
1

So, I finally saw Brokeback Mountain the other day. What a total disappointment. I spent most of the movie thinking “What, are we supposed to like these people?”. They’re both assholes. Selfish, cheating, lying assholes.

And the whole homosexuality thing was just an angle. You could have made the same movie with a straight couple, changing very little, and the film wouldn’t have got one per cent of the attention it did now. The biggest change would have to be in the death of Jack Twist, and Ennis only imagines that he was beaten to death. He may well have died the way his wife says.

The movie is a disjointed mess. Suddenly, someone has a kid and suddenly that kid is twelve and then someone else has married a third person and nobody gets older even though time apparently passes like a motherfuck even though it is rarely mentioned. It seems like they ripped out every second page of the screenplay. I haven’t read the book, but I imagine it contains a lot of material never filmed.

The best example: the Thanksgiving dinner in the Del Mar household. I kept wondering why Alma’s boss was at their (very small) Thanksgiving dinner, and then a few scenes later we find out that he is now Alma’s husband. Thanks for the heads-up, guys.

Oh, and the sex scene was freaking horrible. It looked more like a rape than anything.

And this is the movie for which I’ve heard nothing but praise and Oscar nominations. Speaking as a politically correct leftist pansexual, the only reason it’s been so lauded is because the protagonists are two guys, which doesn’t even have much bearing on the story. Pity.

2

No. I found it underwhelming for many of the same reasons you described - too jumpy, actors never age. I think they tried to age them what with Jack’s Awful Moustache and Sideburns in the later parts of the movies and all but he didn’t really look older, he just looked like Jake Gyllenhaal with a moustache and sideburns. I’ve read Annie Proulx’s short story and while I found it much less confusingly TIME WARP!!-y and more emotionally affecting I didn’t think it was such a masterpiece. Plus there never seemed to be much chemistry between the leads. Hell, I found Volgin and Raikov’s relationship more compelling than this.

I also agree with you about the sex scene. WTF.

3

You know, I thought that very same thing when I was watching Titanic. That whole heterosexuality thing was an angle, and you could have made the same movie with a gay couple, changing very little. I also don’t understand why Goodfellas couldn’t have been set in Boise, Idaho, why The Godfather family couldn’t have been from Finnish farmer stock, why The Wizard of Oz had that whole fantasy element, why there was dancing and singing in Singin’ In The Rain, why 2001: A Space Odyssey was set in the future, and why very few of those foreign films have their characters speaking English. Boy, I could go on and on.
Hint regarding Brokeback Mountain: The movie is about those particular characters at that particular location at that particular time in history. To say a movie would be the same if the characters were different (that is, a man and a women in this case) is nigh high ridiculous. If the characters were different, it would by definition be a different movie.

Don’t like the movie? Fine. I have nothing to say to you about that. I loved it, it was my favorite film from last year, and I saw it several times in the theater, but I also realize that it’s not going to appeal to everyone.

Still, I really really REALLY wish people would stop using that “if it was a straight couple blah blah blah” argument. If it were a straight couple the movie would never even have been made, and if it had been, it wouldn’t have been based on the short story “Brokeback Mountain” which would have made it a completely different thing anyway. It is what it is. Judge it on that basis, not on what the movie might have been had it had different characters.

4

I really disliked it too. This is supposed to be a great love story? Their relationship didn’t even have the depth of a fairly poorly written piece of slash. I also found neither character likeable, and the only character who was remotely sympathetic was Alma…I was glad when she told Ennis to hit the road.

Having recently seen Capote too, I now think people who thought that Crash didn’t deserve best picture are bonkers.

5

And what were a couple of gay cowboys supposed to do? Tell their wives and employer that they’ve finally admitted to themselves (or one of 'em, anyway) that they’re gay? That’s how gay was back in the day. Denial to yourself and then denial to everyone around you because it’ll get you beaten or killed or fired.

6

I don’t know if we were supposed to like them. It’s not a criteria of mine that I have to like the characters to think a movie is good.

Lying & cheating? Yeah. That’s sort of the point, isn’t it. That they had a feeling so deep and undeniable living in a time and place where it couldn’t be expressed?

Maybe you missed the subtle hints in the movie that their homosexuality wasn’t really accepted by society at large? And that if you made the movie with a straight couple, it wouldn’t have made any sense.

The movie moved through time. It wasn’t a disjointed mess. It was perfectly linear. And there were blatant establishing shots with every time change.

What would you do if you’d been denied your sexual dreams for 25 years and then been allowed to release them all at once. . .light a candle read a poem?

Pity that it sounds like you went into it like a cynic from the opening credits. I was completely moved by it and still am 6 months later.

7

Speaking as a leftist queer who finds people who use the term “politically correct” to be politically suspect, to watch BBM and think that the sex of the lead characters has little bearing on the story is to have absolutely no understanding of the film whatsoever.

8

I was bored after the first (interminable) 45 minutes. I didn’t watch any more. I wasn’t drawn in to the story at all, the characters spent so little time together that I am amazed they realized their mutual attraction. My wife watched it all and was not teribly impressed. A couple neightbors said it was very good, I don’t think she feels the same.

9

Many other people have pointed it out, but the story only works if it’s a gay couple. As for them spending little time together, it’s kind of set up as a fairy tale - true, everlasting, abiding love is what we’re talking about. It has more of an original Brothers Grimm ending then the sanitized versions we always hear about, but that’s what it is.

FTR, I did love the movie.

10

I haven’t seen the movie, and can’t comment on how good/bad it was.

But I DO think its failure to win the Oscar is a sign that many, many people in Hollywood didn’t really like it as much as they pretended.

11

My wife and I quite liked it, but, to a person, everyone else we know who’s seen it thought it was boring, underwhelming, etc. I think because of the extensive advertising campaign, a lot of people went expecting a more conventional, faster-paced romantic drama… not a arthouse-type movie where the atmosphere and emotions are more imporant than rushing from Plot Point A to Plot Point B.

12

And also, I meant to add, expecting the two leads to be unimpeachable Movie Heroes who are always likable and always do the right thing, instead of two flawed dudes who frequently messed things up and screwed other people over, like real humans.

13

Oh yeah. I liked it. Though I agree with you on the unexpected violence of it all. I’ve even thought about starting a thread on it specifically, since I have no experience - how could I? - of gay male sex outside of one porn film or this movie. But I don’t know how I would ask. Do gay males romance each other? Make love? Or does it generally tend to come afterwards…a whole world I know nothing about.

14

I didn’t see the movie, but I’ve read about it in depth, and I’ve read the short story. I don’t understand this pansexual poster’s point either. That’s where the pathos comes from, is what I mean to say.

As for the sex scene in question, I’m fascinated – again, not having seen it myself – with how much difference there is in the perception of this by different viewers. That alone suggests to me a degree of subtlety. Can I get you to explain what about the scene suggests rape to you, Priceguy?*

As for whether they are assholes, sure. The last flick with a major romantic element in it where I didn’t hate the leads was Romancing the Stone, I think. Everybody in love is an asshole. This is one of the truism of the cinema. :stuck_out_tongue:

Can’t speak to the editing, that’s definitely one aspect of a film that is impossible to grasp without either seeing it or looking at a shot-by-shot breakdown.

*This is true, and completely unrelated to this topic, but last night I had a dream that every thread on the Dope was suddenly authored by one Priceguy.

15

Ooo, I loved that movie. Who knew Michael Douglas could shake his hips like that? A dancing man always gains points in my eyes.

16

Indeed. The movie is, in fact, that rare thing: a faithful adaptation of a book (well, a novella). A very well written novella at that, with realistic, rounded, complex, flawed, sometimes unlikeable characters. Not “Hollywood” at all, which might have confused people.

17

Its failure to win the Oscar was more a function of Hollywood a) getting a little tired of the assumption that BBM would win, b) a late push by Crash supporters, c) lingering discomfort over the subject matter and d) the desire to go for a safe “controversial” choice.

Some do, some don’t. And it’s also situational. Sorta like straight males.

As for the notion that the sex scene suggests rape, I just don’t get it. Yes, the sex was rough, but rough sex doesn’t equal rape.

18

I agree that with two straight characters, it would not have gotten all the attention. That being said, it isn’t a story about a straight couple, it’s a story about a gay one.

I found it underwhelming, but I think only because of all the hype. I think if I’d watched it without hearing all the rigamarole, I probably would have found it entertaining enough.

I DEFINITELY don’t think it deserved an Oscar.

19

If I started a thread about it, would you answer in more detail? Do you think it’s appropriate? Or should I just drop it?

20

Yup, and if Titanic had been lauded specifically for being about heterosexuality I would have said the same thing about that film.

Not get married and spend their lives lying to their wives? Not threaten your wife with violence when she exposes your lies? Not fuck some Mexican male prostitute as if you couldn’t spell STD (I mean, AIDS wasn’t known back then, but STDs were)?

Sure it would. They could still be married and cheat with each other, thus having to lie and sneak around just as much.

I didn’t. I fully expected to love it. I’m surprised and disappointed.

I didn’t expect that, but if I’m going to care about their love story, feel sorry for them and so forth, I can’t think they’re assholes. So you can only fuck a couple of times a year? Oh, poor babies. Maybe if you weren’t cheating assholes I would care about that.

I’m not saying it was a rape, just that there was a minimum of, you know, holding and kissing and touching and well anything, really, except Ennis forcefully turning Jack on his stomach and penetrating. There was enough of that.

They didn’t talk, kiss, embrace, anything. All of a sudden, one guy flips the other guy over and fucks him.

Seriously? Light laughter.

As an aside, I didn’t really see Ennis and Jack as exclusive homosexuals. It seemed to me that they did have feelings for their wives and did enjoy sex with them as well.

If that scene had been between two people who had had sex previously, I doubt I would have raised an eyebrow. But this was their first time, there had been nothing romantic between them previously. I’m not even sure how Ennis managed to be certain that Jack wouldn’t elbow his nose right off his face when he did what he did.