Her music: drivel
Her voice: well, off late, I heard someone report that she has taken singing lessons. What, now? Pretty late, isn’t it? Besides, it’s probably a lost cause anyway.
Her style: yeah right. She has never come up with anyone truly original in her life. All her changes of image have been nicked of someone else, watered down and used to sell sell sell. She even tried religion and spirituality when that was fashionable.
And that is pretty much the bottom line of my argument. She will exploit anyone or anything to gain profit. She never had any talent in the first place, except blind opportunism. I absolutely fail to see why this is in any way admirable.
I have to agree.
I was just thinking bout this the other day,a s my friend Phil is going to Detroit to see her show.
Everybody loves Madonna, he says.
I don’t.
I think she is all about publicity.
Hate is putting it a bit strongly, for me, but I agree with most of your comments. She’s always had one talent – spotting what it takes to get noticed big time. But in the dumbed down world we live in that’s enough to make millions (Spice Girls anyone?).
Most annoying things about her?
Jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon and pretending that it’s originality. See Jane Fonda.
Using a huge, bloated PR behemoth to protect her ‘privacy’, even though its only purpose is to keep her profile as high as possible.
Even her husband Guy is a fake – he’s made his career out of pretending to be a regular, blue collar, London bloke, when he’s really an ex-public (= private) school kid from a family of minor aristocrats.
That’s pretty much why. She has amazingly little talent to absolutely no talent, but she has managed to sell herself and her image (what there is of it), and keep selling herself and do it damn well for nearly two decades. Given her style of music, and singing ability and “acting” ability, and everything else, she should have been forgotten 6 months after she came on the scene, and here we are 17-18 years later, and some people are still anxiously anticipating what she’s going to do next. That takes some level of brains, determination, market savvy, business etc. So for that, she deserves some level of credit.
Few. I never would have thought that hatred could be so rewarding.
Yes, I agree with the posted comment that this may be a rather trite object for “hatred”, but 1. this is the BBQ Pit after all and 2. it really warms my heart to have finally found some people who agree.
About the “she is a great business woman” strand of argument. Being not much of a capitalist, this is exactly what I object to. The selling out of music to business. I never meant to say that she is stupid. Just that she applies her -probably considerable- intelligence to PR for very mediocre music. Fair enough, many bands do (Spice Girls etc.), but I think they should get be criticised for it, rather than respected.
I go both ways over Madonna. I do respect her business acumen. Why not? Why not appreciate something done well, and the pop music business is as treacherous as any out there. It’s cynical to say that sex sells; look at how many sexy women are out there who glow and fade quickly. Look at how many burn out of their own accord, no matter how talented they are. Yet she keeps going.
As for talent, it depends on the song. “American Pie” was a travesty because she covered it so lamely. I can’t figure out why it was done that way (maybe that shows the limits of her creativity, that she couldn’t hire the right producer to leech off of). There were a few songs that rocked big time: “Ray of Light” (yes, she nicked “Koyaanisqatsi” for the video; and “Like A Prayer”
She’s also proved to be extremely annoying and shallow at times, such as her “Sex” book and her movie “career.” She also seems completely devoid of a sense of humor.
I guess as I get older, I appreciate people who can push people’s buttons. They’re getting what they want, and they take a raft of shit for it as well. It evens out. But whether you love her or hate her, pop music would be a lot duller without her.
If I want to rant about anything, it’s George Michael for his pretentiousness and self-homophobia (it’s all right, GM, we knew all along); Michael Bolton for being Michael Bolton; and Garth Brooks for thinking that by shoveling the same shit into new packages and outselling the Beatles, that he’d be considered as good as the Beatles (as if; I loved it when they released “One” and blew his sorry ass away. As far as I’m concerned, he should change his name to Chris Gaines so he’d fade away faster).
The reason so many people respect her, and I include myself, is because she is phenomenally hardworking, focused and self-confident. Unlike so many of the great “talents” in her industry, she didn’t get caught up in drugs and alcohol and other self-destsructive bullshit. She doesn’t claim any great talent, but through sheer grit, determination, and imagination, she turned herself into the biggest music star in the universe. And lasted, too.
If she simply an opportunist without anything else to offer, she would have had, at best, a 3 year flash in the pan. Instead, she’s nearly at 2 decades of superstardom with nary a stumble. Even if you don’t enjoy what she offers, I think you have to respect her for it.
I was but a mere slip of a lass (read: 12 or so) when Madonna first burst onto the scene. Even at that impressionable age, I couldn’t stand her. “Like a Virgin”? “Material Girl”? Hated it all. Sure, she must have a great sense of self promotion. What else could explain an ugly, talentless thing like that getting so much attention for so long? Ugh.
I can happily ignore other artists I dislike. Madonna has a knack for irritating me.
I suppose I started hating Madonna before I new her name or her act. She had old nude photos in Playboy that were taken when Women’s Lib was new and she refused to shave her armpits. She had more hair than a pirate’s beard! And that hatchet-profile mug? Ugggh
Respect her? You might as well respect your stalker for ingenuity or thoroughness. It’s precisely because she has little talent as a performer but has hijacked the plane to La Isla Ego anyway that bugs me.
How can you call a no-talent jerk a superstar just because the music industry is such a hype engine and she’s been squatting in the driver’s seat for so long? Sure, it always has been hype, but that grates less when the heavily promoted artists can at least sing. I don’t care that she has wealth, but after two decades of being in my face for no good reason enough is enough.
Can’t agree with cellophane’s criticism however – it’s no crime to be ugly after all.
How did this modern myth, that Madonna has no talent, ever get started? Has anyone who posted to this thread ever seen “Truth Or Dare”? (Probably not, since everyone here seems to hate her.) If they had, they would have seen that Madonna on her “Blond Ambition” tour was an an outstanding showman, an excellent dancer, and a decent singer. From the segments of her stage show in the movie, I doubt anyone who paid to see her left the stadium feeling like they didn’t get their money’s worth. Frankly, she put on a great show.
I suppose some people might slam me for defending Madonna. I am not. I disagree with her politics, lifestyle, religion, fashion sense, hell, EVERYTHING about her. But Madonna undeniably has a talent beyond self-promotion. That is what has made her so successful. She WAS offered a full dance scholarship to the University of Michigan while in her 20’s, after all. People with no talent for performing don’t get offers like that.
It would be more realistic to look at Madonna’s career IN ITS ENTIRETY. If that were done, it would be obvious that she has persevered and succeeded over some steep odds. She wasn’t always famous, you know. In the early part of her career she lived in a typical New York rathole, with no more hope of ever being a success than the thousands of other would-be stars in most big cities.
I think Madonna, in a way, might actually be a good role model, not just for young women, but for anyone who wants to really succeed at something. She chose a hard career path and did what it took to succeed, while those made of lesser stuff took the easy way out and got 9-5 jobs. I suppose if you’re on top there’ll always be people who try to knock you down. If I were Madonna, my answer to all the bashing would be: I started from absolutely nothing, and now I’m one of the biggest stars in the world. Can YOU say that?
Well, we WERE forwarned. Back in 1983 seh appeared on American Banstand. When Dick Clark asked what she planned on doing next, she replied, “I wanna rule the world.”
I actually rented that movie about a year ago–and what I remember, quite distinctly, is her having one of her bedtime chats with her dancers/backup singers. During that conversation, she herself said, “I know I’m not the best dancer, and I know I’m not the best singer…” At least she’s honest with herself. I also remember her being completely dumbfounded that Nicki (or whatever her name is, the black back-up singer) had no real ambition to be famous herself. Madonna reacted like a 16yro, saying, “YOU don’t want to be famous?!? SHEEZ!” …As if Madonna could not understand any other ambition in the world, anywhere–all that matters is fame. Not talent, not message, not education, and not even wealth–fame. (Insert cheezy TV show/musical theme here)
I’ll agree with your first point; she does indeeed, or at least has, put on a very good show. “Excellent” dancer, maybe not quite, but she is very good (she even had a dance scholarship to Michigan). “Decent” singer, however, I think is seriously pushing it. I’ve believed from day one–and I was 11 on day one–that she could not sing. That actually became more apparent to me in Truth or Dare.
I’ve nearly always despised Madonna, but have a curiosity about her as well. Strange as this sounds, I find her a highly interesting psychological study. Truth or Dare was completely fascinating in that regard.
Despise her voice and her “message” as I do, and ohhhh man I do, I have to concede her a certain amount of respect, for the same reasons Stoid listed.
However, when it all comes down to it, I think she’s a musically untalented narcissistic bitch.
