Am I wrong, or is this rude? At the very least, inconsiderate

The BBQ Pit
41

Dangerosa, here’s a question I ask my children from time to time:

“Would you rather be right or would you rather be happy?” Because a lot of times, you can’t be both. And being right can be awfully lonely.

We all have to suck it up from time to time and do something we don’t want to do for the sake of family harmony. That’s part of being an adult and the price for having a family with different personalities.

This is Guin’s family. Her Uncle is clearly not a master of propriety. Maybe if his wife was alive, things would be different. She’s not. So maybe, just maybe, he’s just doing the best he can and doesn’t realize that people are getting their feelings hurt by his lack of communication and flippant invitations. He probably doesn’t understand the sense of anxiety Guin’s family experiences going to functions at the hallowed grounds of country clubs and the sense of inferiority they breed (which is, after all, their very purpose, isn’t it?) among non-members. So that means Uncle is clueless, not heartless. There’s a big difference, IMO. If people’s hearts are in the right place, then as an adult you suck it up and forgive them for their flaws. Because it’s better to be happy than to be right.

Now, that doesn’t mean that Uncle gets a free lifetime pass for his behavior. Someone, at sometime in, oh, the last 20 years, should have gently, but directly, (as in face-to-face and not via Grandma) communicated to your Uncle how his behavior was making you feel. He cannot be expected to get into your heads and know that you’ve been offended unless you COMMUNICATE it to him, in a calm, polite way. If you DON’T communicate it, then you need to freely forgive and not add it to the pile of small offensives you’ve been adding to that chip on your shoulder.

Communicating your pent up anger by AWOLing your cousin’s party was neither the time nor the place to give Uncle a lesson in manners.

42

But voluntarily absenting oneself from a situation where one feels they may not be able to hold their temper and/or behave appropriately is a very, very smart thing to do. One’s absence may be remarked on, but one’s explosive and disruptive presence will certainly be remembered for a long time.

43

Please realize that all invitations require a response, RSVP on them is only a reminder that should not need to be there. Whether or not there is a RSVP, and whether or not a response card is included, invitees are required to respond promptly. The correct responses are versions of “I regret I cannot attend.” and “I accept your kind invitation.”

It is very much the host’s responsibility to communicate expected dress to the guests, and not as they are leaving the house.

44

PunditLisa, I don’t know Guin’s family, but I know mine.

I’ve spent a lot of time (38 years) watching my mother try to be happy by “not being right.” And its nearly exactly the sort of shit Guin’s family is pulling - over and over again. Guess what, now she is neither happy nor right - but she does feel like she’s allowed herself to get stepped on for 40 years - which doesn’t give her a lot of comfort. Because she was the one saying “I’m sorry” my father’s family blames her for being wrong. Because she has been the peacekeeper, she is to blame when peace is not kept. I’m sorry is enough of an admittance of wrong for the blame to be pinned. Since my mother is the only one who has ever sucked it up, she is the one that gets treated like a doormat. She’d have been happier had she just had it out with them years ago and either forced them to change their behavior or written them off. Rational conversations with this group do nothing - because if you are rationally communicating your feelings, they don’t think you feel strongly about them - the only way things get resolved is for everyone to blow up big.

Having watched this, I’m afraid I’m a little less tolerant of this sort of behavior.

The may be “family” but they were rude and inconsiderate. Not showing up to an event you RSVP’d for is also rude - not showing up to an event you RSVP’d for because you were called while you were on your way and told you had to go home and change…well, in my mind that’s pretty much the same as getting deinvited at the last minute - unless all sorts of appropriate groveling happened in the phone call (which it doesn’t sound like happened).

45

If I get any of that “coat and tie required to eat here” bullshit, I start looking for a big dinner plate to shove up the maitre-d’s puckered ass. GO FUCK YOURSELF, you pomposity of a fucking waiter! Life is too goddamn short to fuck with wearing inane dress clothes just to satisfy your outdated ideas of costumery.

Besides, whoever came up with this coat/tie/tight-collared shirt/pansy-assed dress shoes crappola was a flaming choad. Jesus GOD.

At least that’s the way I see it.

46

I don’t think it’s up to her dad to let the cousin know that her dad is an asshole. She should be old enough to figure that out herself, and the dad should take it up instead with the cousin’s father, not the cousin. If you send a card like, “Sorry we didn’t make it, but your father didn’t tell us it was a semi-formal affair,” you’re putting the cousin in the middle when she should just be allowed to enjoy her graduation. The day of my bachelorette party, one of my friends pulled me aside and started bitching about one of my other friends, who was also present. I felt very uncomfortable because I have loyalties to both, and I didn’t want to have to worry about stuff like that the night before my wedding. I felt that she placed me in an unfair position, and I think that the cousin would be placed in a similarly unfair position if her uncle sent her a card saying, essentially, “Congratulations. Sorry we didn’t make it, but your dad’s an asshole.” That’s just not right. Kids aren’t pawns, and if they have nothing to do with a family feud, they should be left out of it. The dad should contact the cousin’s dad directly and hash it out with him, and not go through the kids.

47

No way. No “GUARANTEEs” here, not in this situation. I’ve seen this before, and even if it was an “honest mistake”, why was GuinClan the ONLY group not informed of the dress code change? Why was it left until the VERY LAST minute to tell THEM?
If they’d left on time, they never would’ve gotten the message. They’d have showed up, been told by the “front line of defense” in the country club that they weren’t dressed properly and wouldn’t’ve been allowed in. Nobody in the family would have even known they’d tried to come.
And IF the family would’ve seen the situation, it sounds very much like they’d have just said, “oh, how gauche, they showed up in casual clothes. Don’t they know how to dress? Really, why were they invited again?”
No different in the reaction of the family, but now the GuinClan has to deal with being publicly humiliated on top of it. How would that have been better, exactly?
And, if Guin’s mom didn’t have anything “nice” enough to attend a semi-formal event, even if they’d gone, they’d still have been turned away. Then they’d have the “advantage” of being publicly humiliated and been willing, knowing participants in their humiliation. I don’t think anyone sees this as a Good Thing.

48

First off, in this instance, we were much happier (and yeah, I know it’s Ponderosa, but the one by us is pretty decent and they usually have good stuff to eat).

We haven’t drifted apart, not really, but like I said, there’s some baggage there, a lot of it having to do with my aunt (a lot of it I’m not privy to, nor do I really WANT to know).
Yes, I could have gone. HOWEVER, I believe I did mention that I don’t have a car, nor a license (partly because I’m not supposed to be driving with the meds I take, anyways). And besides, I wasn’t about to show up and listen to them bitch about my dad. If that’s how they’re going to treat him, why would I want to be on THEIR side?

And yes, we sent Maria a card. It’s not her fault, but in this instance, if we HAD gone, my dad would have spent the evening fuming and gritting his teeth, my mother would have felt out of place and self-conscious, everyone would have been uncomfortable, would that have solved things?

As far as my uncle being clueless, considering the way he was brought up and the lifestyle he lives, no, he is not. This was just the way they always treat my father-as an afterthought. It’s as if we’re the poor relations, and I think my parents are sick of being made to feel inferior. We’re always trying to “be the better person”, and all it does is breed resentment.

I don’t think they’d have turned us out for what my mom was wearing-a simple linen sleeveless dress, but it’s definitely on the casual side, and I KNOW my uncle’s family would have looked down their noses at her and made her feel like dirt. Then EVERYONE would have felt awkward, and no one would have had a good time.

Honestly, if it MATTERED to him that much that we were there, he could have made the effort to let us know, ahead of time, what was what. Rather than just passing it off to his sister-in-law to tell us at the last minute.

As for him having to pay for the dinner, this is gonna sound crass, but again-it was his sister’s family paying for it, and trust me, they CAN afford it. It’s no skin off their asses.

49

Guin, my advice to you (even though the party-throwers SHOULD have sent an invite with dress code spelled out) is to get your mom an all-purpose black dress. My son doesn’t have a pot to piss in, but he had a suit to wear to my FIL’s funeral. He picked it up at the second hand store, and it’s fine for the few “suit situations” he runs into. You can pick up something that’ll do for every dressy occasion, and then she won’t feel so self-conscious. If she’s not a dress or suit person, a pantsuit will also work in most settings. Just my two cents.

50

Uh-uh. Whatever the reason - even if it wasn’t the passive-aggressive jerkery that it sure sounds like, it’s not the guest’s responsibility to go through that chaos just to attend someone else’s party.

A regretful note is necessary. A gift? Hell no! Since when did a lovely gesture that is given for an achievement turn into a social obligation? If you don’t attend an event, you are under no obligation to send a present. In fact, if you do attend, you are under no obligation to do so. However, sending a gift is a sweet, lovely thing to do, and if you can’t attend an event, it’s a nice way to make up for your absence.

If the family already bought a present, sending it is of course the thing to do. Run out and buy one to apologize? No way.

Christ . . . gifts are the best illustration of the entitlement some people feel. The gift registries, the demands for money instead since “We deserve monetary compensation, even if we have all the flatware we need!”, the bridal showers that consist of nothing but giving presents (sometimes without the presence of the bride-to-be) - it’s the most unpleasant, visible face of the crisis of good manners in America.

Holy hell. I was freaking grateful for every gift I got for graduation, but I wasn’t keeping score - the only list I made was to send thank-you cards.

51

We sent her money, as is custom in our family for graduations.

As for an apology, no way. Like I said, had this been an insolated incident, MAYBE we could overlook it. But this has been going on for years. Once, they decided to go out to dinner, because my aunt and cousin were in town, the whole family, except they never even thought to invite us.

No big deal, you say? Well, my sister was up at my grandmother’s, playing with my cousin. They talked about going out in front of her, and then my aunt said she had to drop my sister off at home, because they were all going out to eat. Right in front of her. She came home crying because of course, she wanted to go.

Basically, it’s little things, but those “little things” have added up over the years. Screw them. Screw them all.

It’s not about pride, or a chip on anyone’s shoulder so much as it’s, well, we tried, now we’re just going to go our own way and let them alone.

52

This is important enough that it bears repeating.

As the host, it is your responsibility to give clear and unambiguous instructions to your guests as to time, place, and any other info the guest needs. The host’s primary concern should be the guest, not the other way around.

53

That’s your choice. But I’m always puzzled why people post “Was I wrong?” threads when their opinion has already been poured in concrete and is setting as they write.

54

A little offering that may be totally irrelevant:

My family were always on the ‘poor relation’ side of the equation to my mother’s brother and his wife. I grew up thinking she was a queen bitch, and frankly as a person I still don’t like her very much, she can be very snobbish.

But. My mother pretty much lost 25 years of relationship with her brother because of this cold feeling between the two sides of the family. After my grandmother died, we found out some of the history of why my aunt was so cold to us in the first place. She’d spent all that time thinking our family hated her from the outset, my grandmother had apparently threatened to disown my uncle for marrying her. :mad: She and my uncle assumed my mother knew about that.

The point is, something was misunderstood years ago; something went wrong with the familial relationship, and it’s only recently my mother and my uncle have been able to get together as a brother and sister and be good to one another. But that only happened because instead of continuing the battle of sniping and snobbery, my uncle came out and told Mum what he was hurt about. You know, talked openly and honestly like a mature person.

Yes, the way your family was treated was inconsiderate and rude but it seems like that’s going to continue happening until someone is willing to lay it on the line that there’s a bigger problem between the two branches of the family. Maybe the outcome won’t be good; but neither does it sound like what’s going on now is good for any of you. It doesn’t matter who gave the first or most offence, right now all I see from what you’ve posted is that the pattern of unpleasantness is just going to go on.

55

excellent point. Especially when it’s emphasized in the thread title. If you’re so certain that it was an intentional slam, why ask ‘am I wrong’, just lay out the gripe of ‘for the millionth time she did this’.

of course, if it was all that predictable, I’m also surprised that your end was surprised by the events as they unfolded.

in any event, it’s your life, your relatives, your choice. If you feel that your time is better spent apart, go forth and Ponderosa away.

but - I gotta tell you - when I’m asked for my take on things only to find out what the person really was looking for was a cheering section, I’m less likely to respond in ways the person is hoping for.

56

What’s puzzling? It’s asking for confirmation that, indeed, you’re morally right! How else do you get to be smug and indignant? Of course, it usually results in a certain number of people disagreeing, but that’s what makes this place fun.

Note that IMHO at least, Guin’s still right. The family, whether out of malice or laziness, exhibited very poor form here. And none of the rest of us can fairly evaluate if it was on purpose or not, or if these slights are numerous enough to be worth griping about. Sometimes you’re gonna end up gritting your teeth either way, and you might as well be right if happy isn’t up for grabs.

57

Fair enough-I didn’t mean to sound like I just wanted people to agree. I guess it was more, we felt hurt, and I wanted to know-should we?

But the more I’ve thought about it, the more I’ve decided that I just don’t care about them anymore. I’m more upset for my father-who, as I said, was really hurt. He does a hell of a lot for the family, and it seems like he’s always taken for granted.

Again-if it was that important to them that we be there, perhaps my uncle should have told us in person, instead of just leaving us to find our own way, and sending someone else to tell us, at the last minute.

58

There is another reason to do it - and that’s that you discover that other people have families that pull shit like this, live with roommates who don’t do their own dishes, have significant others who stay out all night, etc.

You do this if you phrase it “I’m so mad” as well as “was this rude?” But some people aren’t comfortable with their own anger and need permission to be angry (and Guin - you go girl - be angry).

Besides we snipe a people when they ask - and we snipe at people when they just tell us they are angry. We give advice both ways. Doesn’t change the outcome.