Right. And I could run into an enemy combatant on my way to Costco.
State the standard there, why not extend it to all people who register for the selective service?
I am pretty sure that drone pilots aren’t very likely to become foot soldiers.
But I guess if compulsory acts of patriotism seem genuine, the perception of respect is all that matters.
But to toss this back in your court, how does authoritarian nationalism map to the ideals of our founding fathers? Can you quote where they advocated for forced acts of patriotism to idolatry at the expense of the fundamental freedoms they posited in the federalist papers and the constitution?
Or how about the next time we have a Democratic control of the Executive, Republicans can have their 2nd amendment rights violated by collecting their firearms and only returning them after a oath of loyalty to the Democratic party is signed and sworn.
If protecting this symbol of respect in order to aid the Military is so important, as to ignore the 1st amendment (Note the Executive tried to punish individuals for leveraging their 1st amendment rights this fall)
Surely the 2nd amendment should be fully open to such requirements for compulsory oaths and acts of respect.
Or is it only uppity minorities who choose the most effective platform for speech that is accessible to them that are subject to this form of restriction?
If Trump tried to punish the kneelers, it was the most limp-wristed attempt in the history of the American presidency. When a US executive seeks to punish, he does so Anwar al awlaki style, no?
Well, duh. Seems like you understand just fine. 
Seriously? How hamfisted does it need to be to satisfy your level of machismo? Trump (and others) have destroyed one football player’s career. Doesn’t seem too “limp-wristed” to me.
I don’t think that people realize that not a single land battle in the Revolution was fought under Old Glory. The first war that even had an the flag was the Mexican-American War and the use was was limited mostly to non-combat. The marines waited to adopt the flag until 1876 and the Cavalry in 1887.
The main reason we even have a flag early in our country’s history is so that ships could fly it in foreign ports. The flag worship started to take off about the same time that nationalism started to rise and gained popularity along the same lines as fascism in the late 1800.
I personally find placing the idolatry of the flag above the rights of man, and assuming that you are being respectful to the military as being exactly the opposite.
Authoritarian nationalism is demonstrably an anti-American stance, and trivializing sacrifices by our citizens who served their country to further those anti-American beliefs should be considered a far greater disrespect to our veterans.
We are bound by a common purpose and a dream, not by a king, god or idolatry. Respecting those who sacrificed themselves for this nation is not respectfully demonstrated by simply reducing their contribution to idle worship.
OK, in an interest of learning about the other side, can anyone provide a cite that in cases like the NFL protests; respecting veterans is the main goal and that they are not simply being leveraged as political prop unrelated to the needs or concerns of veterans?
Nate Boyer, the Green Beret in question, naturally received death threats for his suggestion, presumably from some of those people who are so concerned about members of the military being disrespected.
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When those people enlist, do they know that they will be assigned those duties rather than combat missions? Heck, someone could enlist in the military at a time when there are no active engagements, he or she is still putting his or her life on the line because the possibility exists that something could happen.
Yes, in general I have to say that veterans fit the “underserved and vulnerable population” definition and are used as a prop by all sides. Not that they are personally broken, but that people ignore their individual traits, needs etc…
I can’t claim to be a saint, but I do tend to view the othering of any group as an indication that I need to examine my own beliefs and/or think about how I can be an ally.
There are lots of reasons people join the military. It may be a calling, a desire to serve, or an economic opportunity. I think most people who didn’t serve intend well but it is hard to tell tell if someone is really on a pillar or a pike from a distance.
Stereotyping them either as comic book heroes or as victims is not respect; while I will never have the experience of serving I have been told that both the abstract ideal and the damaged goods sides of this result in similar negative outcomes.
in the Air Force almost everyone (over 90%) who is involved in combat is a pilot or navigator or other plane crew member. And all of those are officers with a few exceptions. If you are enlisted Air Force then it would be very rare for you to get in direct combat in harms way. I believe some drone pilots are enlisted but I would not classify that as being in harms way.
How do you not know that you may be called on to help with a natural disaster tomorrow?
But to try to answer your question is that the socio-economic realities of our force are not as expected. Infantry units today tend to be more white and middle class than the country as a whole. They are typically from middle class families and are joining out of duty or in search of adventure. As one-on-one combat is less common today the people who are on the front are those who wanted to see action. The individuals who join for training or who need to exit the military with a marketable career tend to be higher in the number of minorities and/or lower socioeconomic strata.
So the reason is that we are not under conscription, and most of the personnel needs of the military are not the type of jobs that will result in combat exposure.
The main problem is that this is a false dilemma, you provided “either/or” situation, when in fact there are several options.
As an example it ignores that dishonoring the country (by way of dishonoring the constitution) is often a far higher concern for individuals, and actually relates directly to the Oath that they take when joining.
At least that is one possibility that has been explained to me.
In previous years and decades, TV stations would stop broadcasting late at night (say at 2am). Typically, they would end with a clip of the national anthem playing as a flag is shown fluttering in the wind. It drove a friend crazy that they usually showed a fighter jet along with the flag.
The last people to legitimatly risk their lives to protect freedom were the civil rights marchers in the 60s. I don’t think the Vietnamese, Iraqis, or Afghanis cared much about removing American’'s freedoms
Well, that flag is one of the flags the US Army has ridden to war under, and that flag was spread across the continent by the US Army in the Indian Wars and Polk’s war. So I guess you could say that it’s the flag of a political power propped up by the US Army cavalry, and the country as such doesn’t have a flag. I guess.
ETA: I mean, I expect I’ll get excoriated just for this post, so obviously a lot of us disagree, but maybe that’s how some people see it.
I call bullshit on that, but it’s a standard and socially acceptable thing to say (in the US).
Other reasons may be:
- Couldn’t find a job, Wal-Mart wasn’t hiring. Needed a paycheck at the end of the month and good job security. 30 days paid leave is great too.
- Wanted to ride around on tanks, shoot people, and look cool.
- Enjoy the structure, the camaraderie, and not having to think too much.
- Come from a military family, and just sort of went along with it.
- Good medical cover, educational benefits.
- If you stick around for a few decades doing as little as possible, you get to retire on a great pension. And lots of places offer military discounts.
In the wake of a war breaking out, or an event like 9/11, you may get some people joining up for idealistic or sentimental reasons, but they are the exception, not the rule.
Most veterans will admit you’re right. For the most part people join because they need a job, and it pays well and has good benefits. You can also retire early and it works really well on a resume.
I’m not sure all your proposed alternatives are true, though…
So, yeah, you haven’t been in the Army, huh?
Of course you have to think. Being a soldier (Marine, airman, sailor, etc.) is just as complicated a job as any other, and much more so than most jobs, you’re continually studying.
This isn’t 1732; a soldier’s job isn’t to stand in a line and just reload and fire his musket. The jobs are complicated, and require people who can learn and solve problems.
Yeah, it’s mostly this. The “freeedooom” thing is usually incidental.
I actually went to boot camp with a guy who was there because his fiancees dad was going to buy him a Harley when he graduated.
The great majority of gripes I’ve heard about NFL flag protests have to do with a supposed affront to patriotism, not disrespect of the military.
I think it was Richard Klein who mentioned how useful it was to having the anthem played at sporting events, since he frequently forgot what country he was in, until the anthem started playing.