American schools vs English schools

Right from the start I wish to point out this isn’t a question of which is superior. I feel that question would be extremely difficult to answer and probably really boring or degenerate into a slagging match. Instead I just want to know how american schools work, pretty much all my information comes from Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the ilk, so my knowledge base is understandably small.

The generic English school system, for those that don’t know, runs like this:

  1. Primary school (Reception to year 6, Ages 5 to 11)
    2.Secondary school ({Against all logic} First to Fifth year or alternatively known as Years 7 to 11, Ages 12 to 16){Compulsory education finishes}
    3a.College
    or
    3b.Sixth Form (Years 12&13 or Upper and Lower Sixth, Ages 17 to 18)
  2. University

Like I said that’s only a basic overview, it gets slightly more complicated the further you take it. anyway to the question itself:
As I know it America has five High school years but Uni age is 18. Is it America has a compulsory sixth form? Does America’s primary school last longer then Englsih primary school? Do you not infact have a schooling system but a duck witha pointy stick? Do we (yes I am Englsih, well done, have a toffee) not in fact have an education system but a quagmire of irritating and pointless exams? Or even a flan with a diploma in Elvish? Okay even i lost myself there so tell you what you answer whichever questions you fancy, to be honest I don’t even mind if you answer a question I didn’t ask as long as it pretends to be relevant

America has what you would call a mandatory 6th form. The American school system is 13 years long, divided up in one of two ways, depending on the area.

There’s either:

Elementary School, which is Kindergarten through 6th grade (Ages 6-12, about)

Junior High School, 7th through 9th grade (Ages 13-15, about)

and High School, 10th-12th grade (ages 16-18, about)

Or, it goes

Elementary school, which is Kindergarten through 5th grade
Middle school, 6th through 8th grade
and high school, 9th-12th grade.

Education is mandatory in the US until the age of 16.

  1. Elementary school - generally, kindergarten thru 5th or 6th grade (age 5-12, roughly).
  2. Middle school - 6th-8th grades, or junior high, 7th and 8th gradues. (ages 12-14 ish)
  3. High School - 9th throu 12th grades, ages 14-18-ish. At age 16 in most states you can drop out w/ parental consent, then at 17 w/out consent.

After high school: College, which could be tech/vocational school, 2 years at a community college (both of which I believe are comprable to what you folk call college, but I’m not sure), or 4 years at what you good folk refer to as a university. Or, of course, none of the above.

As an American who is in her last year of high school and has applied to three UK universities, your system is as boggling to me as ours is to you. :slight_smile:

The most common American public school sequence is something like:

Elementary school: Kindergarten - 6th grade

Middle school (sometimes known as Junior High): 7th and 8th grade

High School: 9th-12th grade

I think you can leave school at 16.
So you start with kindergarten at about age 5 or 6 and end with senior year of high school at about 18.

There is no distinction between preparation for colleges vs. universities, although most high schools offer more challenging versions of course for those who are preparing for post-high school education.
Sometimes middle school is a slightly different combination, like 6, 7, 8 or 7, 8, 9.

Well trust me, i’m currently looking at unis myself. Our system is completely insane. IF you want a really fun time try and figuir out the cambridge application system. The words archaic spring to mind, and so do “F*** off you stupid b*******!” But then i have limited tolerance. that being said good luck with your application, what you gonna study?

You should ignore all replies that claim to tell you exactly which years of American school systems are primary school, elementary school, middle school, junior high school, or high school. There is no consistency in the U.S. about precisely which years are called by which terms. The real consistency is that there are 13 years of school coming before college in the U.S. These years are called kindergarten, 1st grade, 2nd grade, 3rd grade, 4th grade, 5th grade, 6th grade, 7th grade, 8th grade, 9th grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, and 12th grade. There are many ways in which these grades are broken up into groups. In some places, kindergarten through 8th grades are elementary school and 9th through 12th grades are high school. At other places, kindergarten through 4th grades are elementary (or primary) school, 5th through 8th grades are middle school, and 9th through 12th grades are high school. At other places, 1st through 6th grades are elementary school, 7th through 9th grades are junior high school, and 10th through 12th grades are high school. At other places, there are other slightly different sets of terminology. These terms are not even determined on a state level. They are determined by the local school district. Often how the years of schooling are divided up into these terms merely because of the size of the school buildings in a paticular school district determine how many grades are put into each building.

One other consistency in the terminology, though, is that 9th graders are called freshmen, 10th graders are called sophomores, 11th graders are called juniors, and 12th graders are called seniors. Confusingly though, these terms are also used for college students. Students in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years of college are called freshmen, sophomores, juniors, and seniors, respectively.

One enters kindergarten in year X if one has turned five years old before a given date late in year X. Unfortunately, this date also varies from state to state. In some states, it’s as early as October 1st. In other states, it’s as late as January 1st of the next year. In some states, kindergarten is optional. If a child’s parents decide not to enroll him/her in kindergarten, they still have to enroll him/her in first grade the next year. There is also inconsistency about whether kindergarten is a full-time program or only a half-time program. I don’t know the statistics about how many states have compulsary kindergarten, what proportion of children go to kindergarten, and what proportion of kindergarten classes are full-time and what proportion are half-time. Does anyone have statistics (and not just personal anecdotes) about this?

School years in the U.S. start anywhere between late August and late September and end somewhere between early May and early June. The precise starting and ending dates are determined by local school boards. Each state has a required number of days which a school year must last. This varies somewhat from state to state, but it’s about 180 days. Meeting this requirement can get tricky in some places because in some places in the U.S. the weather is bad enough in the winter that the schools will have to close for snow several days (or even, in very bad years, several weeks) over the school year. (School closings for weather are determined locally.) Because of this, the school year in that local school district has to be extended into the summer to make up for the lost days (or, in some cases, Saturdays have to become school days).

One can quit school after a certain age with one’s parents’ permission. This age varies somewhat. It’s generally about 16, but it does vary according to the state. It’s my impression that quitting school before graduating from high school (which is referred to as “dropping out” or becoming a “drop-out”) in the U.S. is a bigger deal than doing the same thing in the U.K. (which is referred to as becoming a “school leaver”). A much smaller proportion of students drop out in the U.S. than leave school in the U.K. Further, dropping out in the U.S. restricts your job possibilities much more than leaving school in the U.K.

As should be clear, there are many elements of how schools work that are determined on the national level in the U.K. but which are determined on the local or state level in the U.S.

Wow, I’m trying to get my mind around a nation where the federal government runs the schools and every district uses the same terms and completely failing. Like the death penalty and gun laws, schools are one of those local reponsibilities here that are fiercely guarded and the feds provide a bit of money and then are pretty much told to stay the hell away. That’s why things like No Child Left Behind and all are so controversial; it can be hard for the feds to impose national standards because it goes against tradition.

FWIW, New York City went like this when I was a kid:

Kindergarten, then not mandatory, if you turned five before December 1st.
Elementary school, 1st through 8th grade. There are only one or two middle (or ‘intermediate’) schools in the city, and we had no junior highs. That may be changing, but back then it was a matter of few buildings and lousy funding (schools are funded by property taxes here, which leads to great disparities sometimes).
High School, 8th through 12th grade.

Parochial (mostly Catholic) or religiously themed schools are also in the mix–they get pretty limited funding (separation of church and state issues) with transportation and schoolbooks and all, but they usually do a better job with poor kids. They follow the same years as public schools.

NYC has recently undergone huge educational reforms under Mayor Bloomberg which are still being evaulated. But he didn’t have to get any national approval for them. It strikes me that it would be really hard for any local school district to get things done if everything had to be passed by Parliament or something too.

I recently interviewed someone from the CIE, the University of Cambridge International Examinations, which offers exams ranging from high school to postgrad and vocational. These exams need to be tailored specifically to different countries (generally cultural issues), while trying to maintain a certain standard.

I asked him about the different levels of education throughout the world in terms of high school. His view was that the UK was considerably higher than the US, but that Singapore was the toughest of them all.

Already done with UCAS (THAT was a headache and a half, since no one at my school knew how to fill it out). Applied to PPE at Oxford (rejected), Int’l politics at U Wales Aberystwyth, and Peace STudies at U. Bradford - got a conditional acceptance at both.

There is no “national level” in the U.K., as England & Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland have seperate systems.

If you’re referring to the UK, schooling isn’t “run” by the “federal” government in the UK. The government does sets standards such as the national curriculum, but each (state) school is funded by local taxation, and is run autonomously by its principal, usually in conjunction with a parent-appointed board of governors. But that is just the state sector - there are all sorts of independent schools available in the private sector, if you’re prepared to pay for them.

O.K., Futile Gesture, but the point is that schools are standarized at a high level in the U.K. Yes, it’s at the level of England and Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland, rather than at the level of all of the U.K., but it’s still true that it’s standardized at a high level in the U.K. rather than a local level as in the U.S. Also, it’s not even clear what to call England, Wales, Scotland, and Northen Ireland as opposed to the United Kingdom. We’ve had discussions in thread here many times about what precisely the terms “country” and “nation” mean in the U.K. Even the Brits weren’t able to come up with consistent terms. (And, incidentally, I lived in England from 1987 to 1990.)

jjimm, while it’s not true that schools are “run” by the U.K. (or by England and Wales, Scotland, or Northern Ireland), it is true that schools are standardized at those levels much more than in the U.S. Schools vary more at local levels and at state levels in the U.S. than in the U.K.