Ancient History, I know, but....

Great Debates
21

I’m still here, Adam, I’ve just concluded it is more productive to bang my head against the wall than to try to discuss religion with you. I respect your right to believe what you want, but I have nothing but contempt for your arrogant judging of everyone who doesn’t agree with you. I also find it difficult to converse with you because you apparently have problems in making or following a logical argument. David B. and Phil (and others) may disagree with my beliefs, but at least I can discuss the idea and relative merits of belief systems with them – I can’t with you. I can also discuss other topics with them; you apparently limit your posts to religious topics, and since I’ve decided not to discuss religion with you, you naturally haven’t seen much of me lately – and are unlikely to see much of me in the future, either.

Oh, and Falcon, I doubt very much that Adam would admit that you and I are really Christians; he’s told me in the past that I am not.

22

One person’s ‘misinterpretation’ can be another’s interpretation, you know. Just because someone disagrees with you interpretation of something (even the bible) doesn’t make THEM wrong.

And yet, you don’t hesitate to give misinformation about other faiths (catholicism, the LDS, wiccans, etc. ad infinatum). Even when corrected, you continue to spout the same lies. I say ‘lies’ because ‘misinformation’ indicates a mistake, while your statements tend to be willful.

Play fair, Adam.

Jess

Full of 'satiable curtiosity

23

Glad to hear it, jodih. When you dropped out of the “Black Miss America” thread, I thought you were gone as well. Maybe that was another “brick wall” thing, I know it felt like it to me. . .

Rich

24

Adam: Jess pretty well summed it up. I don’t feel actual enmity towards you; what it is, htough, is astonishment at your actions and pity towards you.

Pity because you refuse to accept that others ideas may be valid. Astonishment that you are incapable of understanding the English definition of that English word “may.”

Why not admit that what you posted before was not only mean but also wrong? Admit that you’ve no training in what you’ve been espousing–not even informal training.

As I’ve told you before, I’m not adverse to encouraging you and helping you to understand the differences between Religion, Theology, and Catechism.

I await your admission that others, such as LDS, are Christians. We’ll go from there.

25

Waste: So, making fun of God, for you, is like me making fun of the Easter bunny right? That’s a fine kettle of fish.

Waste, do you like it when someone makes fun of your father? Or when someone pokes fun at your best friend? Indeed, when you make fun of God, it affects me, because as a Christian, I have a strong relationship with Him.

Rich: I’m not sure what you’re definition of Christian is, but I know for a fact that Phil Dennison is NOT Christian. Right Phil? He WAS Christian, but no longer is. and if you ARE a Christian, then I apologize for my error.

Jodih: Good to see you’re still around. We had our spats, and I hope that you can one day talk to me, without fear that I’ll block you out, or be rude to you. If you check out MPSIMS, and GQ, you’ll see that I can, and do post stuff that has nothing to do with religion.

Jess:

Again, this is my past. There’s no lies coming from me anymore. I admit to my mistakes. And BTW, I never lied about Wiccans. I mearely asked a few questions…you can even ask Auraseer.
And, I do play fair…or at least, I’m really trying. :slight_smile:

Monty:

I plead the Fifth. We will always disagree Monty. But it doesn’t mean that there can’t be peace, or like Jess says, that we can “play fair.”

Adam

“Life is hard…but God is good”

26

Sorry, Adam; on this issue you can not plead the fifth. Answer “yes” or “no” and provide basis for your answer: “Are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints themselves Christians?” (bolding mine)

Answer “yes” or “no” and provide basis for your answer: “Are members of the Roman Catholic Church themselves Christians?”

27

I’m not going to discuss this with you further Monty. Please stop trying to trap me. No more stumbling blocks.

Adam

“Life is hard…but God is good”

28

Adam, neither of those two questions constitutes a trap. You have stated your opinions on both topics before, in multiple other threads; here, Monty is simply asking you to clearly restate what you believe.

(BTW, because by name was mentioned, I’ll say FTR that I don’t recall Adam making any incorrect assertions about Wicca. Or any assertions about it at all, CTTOI…)

Of course I don’t fit in; I’m part of a better puzzle.

29

Like I said, I plead the Fifth.

“Life is hard…but God is good”

30

What is this, a court of law or an informal message board? Monty, I don’t think Adam would believe that the LDS are Christians if Jesus himself came down and told him so. I think you’re wasting your time.

31

Adam:

What?

Honestly, Adam, I do not care if someone makes fun of my father. Hell, I only met the guy once. Seemed like a nice enough fella, but more than capable of taking care of himself. As far as my best friend? If I can poke fun at my best friend, why on earth should I care if someone else does it? My best friend is a grownup, and also able to look out for him/herself.

And as Rich, I believe, already pointed out, this god of yours is not in the market for a defense attorney. So, why, then, do you feel the need to get your knickers in a twist when someone, in your colorful phrase, “talks smack” about him? Don’t you think that he can take care of himself? Maybe if you would learn to accept that there are others who feel differently than you do, then you wouldn’t be looked upon with such scorn. Better yet would be if you would actually examine some of the things that you say, but I doubt that you will do that.

Waste
Flick Lives!

32

Adam, I’ll swallow all your opinions,whole :o

33

Attention People: That was a joke,and I hope Adam Doesn’t get it! :wink:

34

>> (BTW, because by name was mentioned, I’ll say FTR that I don’t recall Adam making any incorrect assertions about Wicca. Or any assertions about it at all, CTTOI…) <<

Upon reflection, Adam hasn’t made the same kinds of assertions about Wicca as he has about some other religions. When I included Wicca among the faiths maligned by Adam, I was thinking of his response after visiting a Wiccan website – he said that he took a quick peek around and fled. The implication being that the site was so scary and bad (read “evil and wrong”) that Adam feared for his spiritual health. To me, this smacked of the common confusion between Wicca and Satanism and I construed it as such. Perhaps I was wrong.

Jess

Full of 'satiable curtiosity

35

Jess, he did that to the American Atheists home page too. How someone be so afraid to even read about other viewpoints is beyond me. It says “INSECURE ABOUT MY RELIGION” in big neon letters, if you ask me.

36

Er, that is, “how someone can be…”

Also, I don’t want the statement above to mean that I endorse American Atheists or Wicca in any way. But at least I’m not afraid to read their web sites! (g)

37

Well, I must defend Adam to this extent: I think it’s unfair to ask someone what they believe and then attack them for their opinion. I mean, if they’re stuffing their opinion down your throat, or even offering it up for criticism or comment, that’s one thing, but that’s a different thing that affirmatively soliciting someone’s opinion solely to attack it.

Adam has been pretty clear in the past that he believes that anyone who doesn’t adhere to his specific religious beliefs is not a Christian. I’m not; Falcon’s not; Strainger’s not; Snarkberry’s not; Monty’s not. I think this belief is incorrect under any reasonable definition of the word “Christian,” but I respect his right to hold it. I only got irritated when he took it upon himself uninvited and unsolicited to inform me that I’m not a Christian. If I had asked him for his opinion, I could hardly complain about the content of that opinion – but I hadn’t asked.

Monty, on the other hand, is asking what Adam believes, and he’s asking solely to debate the validity of Adam’s beliefs – while at the same time objecting to Adam’s scepticism of his beliefs. Under such circumstances, I think Adam is right to refuse to be drawn – especially since he’s already answered the question anyhow.

38

How does accepting (or not) LDS as Christians constitute a criteria for one’s niceness? I mean, whether or not LDS teachings are compatible with Orthodox Christianity or not is a theological Question. Does having a “wrong” answer to a theological question necessarily make me a mean-spirited, nasty person?

I, personally, do not think LDS teachings are biblical; I believe they are sufficiently different from orthodox, historic Christianity, as defined by the Bible, by the Church and the Creeds, as to constitute a seperate religion. Hence, I would not consider LDSs as fitting into the theological category of “Christian.” I should add that the Pope and Billy Graham agree with me (Or better to say I with them…). Obviously, if someone want to call themselves “Christian,” I can’t stop them, and I don’t try. But, as a matter of theological taxonomy, I don’t agree.

Despite that, I, amazingly, have never defamed, insulted, assaulted, punched, kicked or shot a LDS, nor have they me. I am cordial and respectful, and they are too. I had a couple of LDS roomates for a few months, and we never once argued over it. They were a little wierd, but I think that was just them. Almost uniformly I have found LDS to be Good People. I venture to guess they think roughly the same of me. Moreover, I bear no ill will to any LDS on this board and would be happy to be their freind if they will have me. I have Buddhist, Muslim, Taoist, Atheist and who knows what else freinds. Staggeringly, I have even had theological conversations with them devoid of acrimony, even when I told them I disagreed.

Now I’m not going to get into the theological arguments; I haven’t read up on LDS in ages and I have a policy of not having those discussions on the net–where it almost invariably DOES slide into acrimony, due to the limitations of the medium.

But my point is that this thinking that “If ARG (or anyone) believes ____, he must be a bad person,” is absurd. It’s the same kind of thinking that says “because you oppose me on this political issue, you therefore are racist/sexist/immoral.” Heck, it’s the same thinking that says “All Packers fans are bastards.”

ARG has said some not-so-nice things in the past, and he’s said plenty of stupid things. If you want to waste him for those, go right ahead. But let’s leave off with this crap about “If you don’t agree that LDS are Christians, it means you hate them all.”

“It all started with marbles in school…”

39

What got me irritated was when he said something like, “Well, let’s just call Mormonism a false religion,” also uninvited and unsolicited. I’m over that now, and I realize that Adam is entitled to his own opinion, but at first I got mad at him and stayed mad for a while, simply because he had attacked my religion without even knowing what it really teaches.

As far as I’m concerned, that chapter of our online relationship is over–Adam has apologized, I have apologized, and I’m willing to call it ancient history. (And BTW, I do respect Adam, I just don’t adhere to his belief system.)

40

I didn’t mention my definition. I mentioned yours. If you belong to a fundamentalist sect with which I am unfamiliar which teaches that one can lose his or her salvation, then my apologies.

Rich