Snarkberry,
Sorry I made you so upset. I can understand. Unfortunately, Christianity does have limits and boundaries. Orthodox religions do chose to live by the boundaries they feel are inherent in their interpretation of the Bible. Being inclusive of beliefs considered heretical would be encouraging or tacit acceptance of heresy. So there’s the conflict–make nice and make everyone happy with no standards or have standards and insult people who disagree. It’s a hard choice but it gets made. I don’t apologise for being part of a religion that choses standards over making nice.
It wasn’t nice of you to even suggest we should call orthodox Christians Satanists. I didn’t insult your religion–Christers wasn’t an insult–just a kinda clever name. I would appreciate it if you didn’t insult the religion of millions of people.
And thanks for the update–I had thought the Mormon religion was based partly on Jesus Christ and partly on Joseph Smith’s works like the Book of Mormon, POGP, D&C’s, and any further utterances from the prophets. When did you change?
Smiling Jaws: A word of advice. It’s not smart to argue with the Mormons on this board. I tried it, and it doesn’t matter how much evidence is stacked against them. It doesn’t matter how many contradictions you show. Some things just can’t be argued on the Internet, and I found out the hard way that this is one of them.
Adam
“Life is hard…but God is good”
ARG, apparently completely unaware of how ridiculous he was making himself look, said:
ROFL! Oh, jeez, I’m laughing so hard it hurts! You really don’t have any idea, do you? Here, let me spell it out for you:
You have just described yourself to a “T”!
And you wonder why people get upset with you?
Man, oh man, oh man.
Smilingjaws: A great surprise awaits you upon your death.
Adam: You have yet to present a convincing argument that Mormons aren’t Christian, especially since you refuse to even read Mormon literature before forming an opinion of them. You haven’t a leg to stand on.
Oh, and Smilingjaws, one other thing. You wrote:
The fact that you don’t see the contradiction between the first quoted sentence and the last one is pretty ironic. First you say you choose standards over niceness, then you say I’m not being nice. Well, guess what? I choose standards over niceness as well. And to me, orthodox Christianity IS Mormonism and you are the heretic.
Well, but Bill. . . I don’t think that statement is supportable, in light of the definition of “orthodox”: “conforming to established doctrine; conventional.” Now, I have no desire to disparage you or your religious choice (any more than I’d disparage anyone else in the same area, anyway ;)), but you have to admit that doctrine that is specific to the Mormon faith has been around a far shorter time (and is therefore “less established”) than the doctrine which the Mormon faith may have in common with other “Christian” denominations. I don’t think it really fills the “orthodox” bill.
Adam said:
This from the guy who said, “Creation is FACT FACT FACT. But believing that would take faith.” It is seemingly more important how many contradictions you post than how many you show.
Rich
Rich: “Mormonism,” or to be more precise in my wording, “Christianity,” has been around since before the world was created. Adam and Eve were “Mormons,” although they didn’t call their religion by that name. Thus, Mormonism is the ultimate orthodox religion. The religions that call themselves “traditional” or “orthodox” Christianity are, in my religious opinion, falsely claiming God’s authority for themselves while teaching the commandments of men, not of God.
David, thinking he’s so sly, says:
David, David. I’m fully aware of what I’m saying. You can’t compare Mormons, and me, because I don’t call myself Mormon. Hmm, did that make sense? Probabaly not.
Let’s say we’re arguing over evolution. Now, I never said that I was an evolutionist. But in this case, it’s as if the Mormons are saying that they are evolutionists too, and it’s impossible for you to argue with them.
You fight my fire with water. But a Mormon and Christian use the same book, and fight fire with fire. But they still don’t see the contradictions. Do you see where we are nothing alike?
Please tell me you understand me David, because I’m having difficulty explaining myself.
Adam
“Life is hard…but God is good”
This, Adam, should be your sig from this point forward.
Waste
Flick Lives!
Adam: You have yet to present a convincing argument that Mormons aren’t Christian, especially since you refuse to even read Mormon literature before forming an opinion of them. You haven’t a leg to stand on.
Here’s a quote from www.mormons.org which chastises me for my recent remarks regarding Smilingjaws’s religion:
I’m sorry, Smilingjaws. I haven’t been acting very Christlike, and when I read this, I said to myself, “This applies to me and my words on the SDMB today.” Please forgive my unworthy words against your religion. While I still assert that the LDS church is true and that it is the only church on the face of the earth today that has direct authority from God, I also believe that other religions have truth in them, to a greater or lesser extent. To claim the corner on truth is arrogant of me and shows a lack of understanding towards others. I’ll work on it. All I can do is pick myself up and start again.
To address two missed points. . .
From Bill:
I think I understand the thought that you are trying to convey, Bill, but your statement simply ignores the definition of “orthodox.” Is it true that the majority of people who believe in Jesus as the Son of God are Mormons, or believe in many of the tenets of the Mormon faith? No. The mormon faith is therefore not “orthodox” in that the beliefs therein are not conventional or commonplace.
From Adam:
David didn’t compare you to Mormons (though if he had left out an “m” a comparison might have been appropriate). He quoted you as saying, “I tried it, and it doesn’t matter how much evidence is stacked against them. It doesn’t matter how many contradictions you show.” and responded by saying that you had just described yourself to a “T”.
In other words, David’s statement has nothing to do with what you call yourself (I’ve got a few possibilities for you, if you need some), it has to do with the fact that it doesn’t matter how much evidence is stacked against your arguments and how many contradictions you are shown pertaining to your arguments, you continue to hold your position.
One can only hope your fire is not a grease fire.
Rich
VegForLife wrote:
Then my work here is done. 
Seriously, the thought I’m trying to convey is that True Christianity (Mormonism) has been around long before other Christian churches were even conceived. Whether you want to call that “orthodox” or not is simply a matter of semantics. Maybe I’m using the word wrong, but I think you get my point.
Now, THAT is funny. 
Bill: As I said, it doesn’t matter what evidence I provide. Both you, and Monty have said that you don’t see any contradictions in the Bible vs. BOM, and that you have both studied the Bible. I can show you these things until I’m blue in the face, but until they are hidden in your heart, it won’t make a difference. And besides, we can’t discuss anything over the 'Net. These things must be dealt with in person.
Adam
“Life is hard…but God is good”
Adam: You have yet to present a convincing argument that Mormons aren’t Christian, especially since you refuse to even read Mormon literature before forming an opinion of them. You haven’t a leg to stand on.
Snarkberry - Regarding Mormans being Christian, I’m just curious how you feel about these two issues:
Brigham Young said “He [Christ} was not begotten by the Holy Ghost…Jesus our elder brother was begotton in the flesh by the same character who was in the Garden of Eden, who is our father in heaven.” (The Journal of Discourses 1:51).
But the bible states that Mary was a virgin, and that Jesus was conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35 and Matthew 1:18-20). Even the Book Of Morman affirms this (Alma 7:10). Why the contradiction?
Joseph Smith said “In the beginning the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.” (The Journal of Discourse, Vol. 6).
The Bible, on the otherhand, consistently teaches only one unique God (for example Deuternonomy 6:4, 1 Kings 8:60, John 17:3, James 2:19). What’s going on here?
Bill: What are you? A broken record? I heard you the first TWO times you said that. My point Bill, is that it doesn’t matter what I present to you. 
I really didn’t want to argue again. So, I won’t.
“Life is hard…but God is good”
Well, if by “a matter of semantics” you mean “a choice to use words incorrectly,” then yeah, I guess it is. (No offense intended there, it’s just that I see the phrase “a matter of semantics” used far too often, as far as I’m concerned, because the meanings of the two words or phrases in question are just too different. Sort of a pet peeve thing going on there, I guess.)
Yeah, I do. I’d just suggest you not think of Mormonism as “orthodox” Christianity. “The one, true way” is different from “orthodox.”
Rich
Why the contradiction? I’d say it’s because both of those quotes are from the Journal of Discourses, which is not considered a source of LDS doctrine, for various reasons (such as misquotations, hearsay, etc.). We believe in the miraculous virgin birth of Christ, and there is only one God we have anything to do with. Sure, there are other Gods, but the only one who we worship is Elohim.
I just called my bookie. He said that Vegas odds were running 16 to 1 in favor of the above statement being false.
Anybody willing to bet against?
Rich