And you're surprised why?

What the fuck is the matter with you? I can’t believe you could be so fucking clueless.

OK, here’s the situ.

I’ve mentioned before how I’d been in a custody battle with the ex. Since I’ve had full physical custody, this fucking waste of a perfectly good reproductive system has seen her kids exactly 8 times, only 4 since January. No visit lasting more than 4 hours. (This is not a condition of visitation, she can have them 2 weekends per month, and i’d give her more if she asked)

She calls me a few minutes ago…

worthless: Whats the matter with Jock (my 10 y/o)

Me: Nothing that I know of, what’s up?

worthless I saw him yesterday at his grandmothers house and he acted like he didn’t want to speak to me.

(I should mention, his maternal grandmother has been babysitting him lately)

me: Well it’s probably because you haven’t seen them nuch.

worthless Well [insert bullshit excuse #1 here] and [bullshit excuse #4 here] and [follow up lie here] besides [fully self indulgent wiggle here].

me: Well I’ll bring it up tonight, and see what he says :rolleyes:

stuffinb, I feel for you. I’m in a similar situation. I assume you’re not really going to press your son on this? IMHO, it’s asking him to be responsible for her emotional needs and it also puts him in the position of having to justify his own very natural feelings. (Of course, you could just ask how things went when his mom dropped by and let him tell you on his own if he’s got any issues…)

I had no intention of bringing it up to him at all. Though now I may talk to him just to see if he wants to unburden himself. It just really pisses me off that she’s so fucking irresponsible like this. More often than not when she does actually see them, I find myself making excuses for her, as to why they can’t see her more. GRRR…

Your response should have been something like this:

Well, you stupid bitch, maybe he didn’t WANT to see you. Ever thought of that? Since you’re the most pathetic waste of a reproductive system I’ve ever seen and a horrible mother. He, being 10, is old enough to have figured this out. I only wish I had sooner. Go fuck yourself.
wonders where that came from

Does this imply that you believe that a parent should not attempt to channel a child’s emotions in a more productive and positive way? Or even guide them on a proper course of action (as in this case) in matters that involve emotions? If so, I disagree with you.

Note: this is meant in a general sense, and is not intended as a comment or criticism in the specific and personal cases involving stuffinb or yourself, which may involve many other complex factors.

Searching For Truth I practice biting my tongue … a lot.
IzzyR I think that what he reffered to in the latter part of his post, or at least is how I took it.

Anyways, update:

I bought it up to him last night, and he didn’t want to talk about it. I can tell it’s hurting him though, so I just told him to feel free to talk to me about it. He said he was thinking of writing her a letter. I think that may help him verbalize his feelings, so I’ll just wing it.


However, my comment was intended to address the specific case related by stuffinb: Mother is upset that child, who she rarely takes the trouble to visit, doesn’t appear to “want” to speak to her. Mother then complains to father, who is the primary care-giver to the child, and wants an accounting of the child’s attitude toward her.

I agree that children need guidance, emotional support and lots of communication with their parent(s). My concern in this case was that the child’s emotional needs be considered; not the [largely estranged] mother’s needs. Questioning him on his reticence with his mother would have placed (IMHO) undue burden on him to please a parent who seems unwilling on her part to provide guidance and emotional support. Giving the boy the opportunity to unburden himself, on the other hand (as stuffinb indicated he was going to do), would allow guidance and support to be provided to him without making him feel he’s somehow wronged his mother.

stuffinb, I think you’re handling it the right way. You might suggest to your son that he can go ahead and write his letter, and then decide whether he wants to send it or tear it up – sometimes just writing what you would like to say let’s you deal with the person who’s upset you in a more constructive way.

Good luck.

I say this is as good a justification for the pit’s existence as any.

Stuffinb, if you want to talk e-mail me.
You and I going through alot of the same things right now. How is everything going with your case?

My sons sperm donor hasn’t seen him in a year. Not since right before Josh got out of the hospital.
And just yesterday Josh asked when I was going to let him see his dad again.
I bit my tounge until it bleed before I replied. I calmly told him that I wasn’t sure where his father had gone to, and didn’t know of anyway to get ahold of him.
The fucker quit his job and I think he moved, and I am the one Josh is upset with because his dad isn’t seeing him.
As you know I never talk bad about him in front of Josh. I will let him decide on his own what he thinks of his dad. And I will be here for him.

Kricket - no advice, I’m not sure if there is a lesson here or anything but I do want to tell you a quick story of someone I know:

She is a single mother and the father is around, but spotty and is spotty on support. She lets him get away with this (which I disagree but that is another thread). I met her when her boy was 10 and her boy is now 20.

She had exactly the same philosophy as you - never say anything bad of the father in front of the child. The father badmouthed her and she knew it but noble-ly kept her convictions. The son blamed her for many things and you could tell it came from the father. She defended herself best she could.

Her mantra to me was always "When my boy grows up, he will understand. He will see what I did and stood for and see what his father has done (little support/badmouthing). Very noble and I believed she was right.

Well, the ‘boy’ is 20 now and guess what? Won’t even talk much with his mom because she is an idiot, milked his father for more than she should, blaa, blaa, blaa.

Her brother (his uncle) and I took him out a few months ago and explained to him what happened. What his mother did and why and exlpained that we thought he was old enough to understand. We told him the amount of support his mother received and asked him if he could live on it. Blaa, blaa, blaa.

Nope, father is a saint, mom is a greedy bitch etc. Turns out he believes that mothers should support 100% and fathers not at all. Father has to live in a trailor because of his ‘sacrifice’ to his son (not because his dad only worked part time). No amount of logic would appeal to him. I also feel sorry for any woman who falls for him.


What I am saying is that (MAYBE!) not defending yourself at all may not be a good thing. Maybe the child needs to be slightly exposed to the truth.

Or I could be wrong. Don’t know.


Kricket Thanks, check your e-mail.

BlinkingDuck Your story reminds me of one of my own…

Before I got custody of my kids and just had visitation, it wasn’t unusual for the ex to call needing money. (She has a drug problem) Well shortly before X-mas she calls me up and tells me her purse was stolen (it was the 3rd time that year) can I bring her some money so she can buy Xmas presents? No I tell her, I’ve already done all my x-mas shopping and am broke. Besides the kids are going to be with me for the break, so you can always buy them something afterwards, or I could bring a few of mine over.

Well she gets pissed off. She says I can’t see the kids. We argue for the next three days. The day before X-Mas, she has the kids call. One by one they pick up the phone and say “Thanks for nothing, and ruining Xmas”. I have never been so hurt. Crying I called her Mom and sister, and told them what was going on.

I spent the next few hours debating on taking the gifts to their mothers and dropping them off. To this day, I appreciate my sister in law. Just before I began loading up the car, she pulls up to my house with my sons.

I never did say anything to them about the phone call. I knew she’d put them up to it. The X-mas tree was all they needed to know what ever their mother said to them was a lie.
Geez, till typing this I’d forgotten how much that hurt.

I see the emotional support and communication, but not the guidance. It seems that the course of action you recommend (“you can talk to me if you feel like it”) is leaving a 10 year old child to be guided - in his relationship with his mother - to the mercy of his emotions.

I’m not sure 20 is old enough to count as “grown-up” for this purpose. If he still feels this way in 10 years, he’s a jerk. Now, he might still just be a stupid insensitive kid.

On the other hand, my uncle still thinks his parents should support him and he’s 60, so I suppose childishness knows no age boundaries.

Oh, Stuffinb, I know what you are going through.

I have a nephew that is 16 years old. He just got his first truck, and he has spent every penny he earned last summer fixing it up. He ran into his “father” (if you can call him that) at Wal-Mart the other day. (‘Father’ and Sister have been divorced for about 5 years now.) ‘Father’ says, ‘oh, now you have your own truck, that’s really great, you can come and see me now.’
As if my sister didn’t drop him off whenever Nephew wanted to go there.
As if ‘Father’ ever bothered to come and pick Nephew up, take him to a hockey game, or do anything somewhat fatherly with him.

It’s truly sad when Nephew gets all excited about his dad, because the rest of us know that ‘Father’ is never going to follow through with what he promises. But never once has my sister bad-mouthed him, in front of Nephew, at least. She just tells Nephew that he needs to make arrangements to see his dad, and that she will give him gas money, whatever he needs to get there. She encourages Nephew to call him, try to make plans. Unfortunately, ‘Father’ is just a schmuck, and he will never realize what he’s going to lose in my nephew.

Encourage your kid to write a letter to his mom, so that he can get out what he is feeling. Tell him that you think it will help him a lot, and if he gets to the end of the letter and doesn’t want to send it, it’s ok. As long as there is some kind of release, it will help. And you never know, depending on how old your kid is, he might give you the letter and say “can you read this, to make sure it sounds ok?” which is basically his way of saying ‘ok, I want you to know, too, but don’t criticize or tell me to change the meaning.’ (Which basically means, read it, and tell him it’s good, but hey, you forgot a comma here.)

Good luck. Hopefully your son will realize that sometimes moms just aren’t meant to be moms, and it’s better to have a kick-ass dad like you. :slight_smile:

Oh, and the only thing that I would say to his mom would be “You know, you’re all talk. You don’t bother yourself with the kids, yet you get upset when they disregard you the same way. I wondered where they got that from.”