Angel 02/05/03 - Soulless

The Cordy thing makes sense, but I hope it’s Gunn too. Because then there will be howling and rending of clothes and a “Evil/Dead Black Guy Cliche” essay and… droooool


I think so, too. Angelus did something for the Beast, we just don’t know what. And I think the returned favor is freeing Angelus once again.

So who is going to die next week?

It’s always the black guy that dies first!

Just kidding. I really, really like Gunn and I hope he stays. He has excellent comic timing, conveys tremendous internal conflict and insecurities as well as love and valor, and dammit, yes, he’s black. It’s nice to watch a show with a strong black character that isn’t targeting a black audience. I fervently hope Connor dies, but I’m sure that’s not going to happen. Still, the only other person I see as faintly expendable is Lorne, and I love that guy.

It would be really interesting if Cordelia does die. That would give Charisma time to give birth, and then come back all svelte and boobalicious when they raise her from the dead/ bring her back from an alternate dimension/ work a deal with the Powers That Be, whatever. Because if Cordy dies, ain’t no way she’s staying dead.

—Bye bye Gunn, Captain Third Wheel.—

I dunno if this is technically a spoiler, since it’s was in the promo for next week but:

I’m pretty sure that was Gunn in the promo digging a grave while the voiceover promised a death. Gunn is digging his own grave? No way. Besides, they’ve put so much effort into this Wes/Gunn/Fred thing to end it that easily. Plus, they are going to kill off the only African-American regular in all of Jossverse? I think not..

Gunn does get on my nerves big time. He and Fred are weak-ass additions to the Jossverse, they just feel like wasted bit players, not Angelscoobies.

I know there were two times when I thought that the dialogue was “witty”, one of which you mention and the other I don’t remember. Perhaps the use of “witty” was ill-placed, but I still thought it was great-not one of the best Angel episodes to be sure, but still pretty good.

I’m pretty sure the death is going to be a non-regular. They just have too much that’s mysterious or long-term going on with all the regulars to kill any of them off, certainly not before the end of sweeps. Unless it’s Lorne, in which case it would just be stupid (he’s their token green guy). But it can’t be Lorne cus they just made him a credited regular, and there’s no way that he’s another Tara (who was added to the credits for just one ep: her death).

Speaking of which, what the hell IS up with Lorne? All his predictions lately have been utterly worthless, not enough to even be cryptic. Angelus sings… and he can’t get anything useful other than to say “you don’t want to know”? In the casino ep, he could read people’s entire futures.

Did no one else notice that Sean “Samwise Gamgee” directed last nights ep.?

Kinda cool that he’s into the show.

I know who dies next week! Ooooooh! I should tell you!!! Highlight below!!!

Look, i’m ludicrous as hell.

If you really want to know who dies, read this thread from the Television Without Pity boards. (Scroll down a bit.)

Well, i’ve been reading spoilers here for months that Faith was going to show up and get offed, maybe this is it…

No, definately not it, as long as she isn’t showing up on Buffy as a vamped slayer…

Now, did I misinterpt the commerical for next week or after they mentioned that someone was going to die did they show someone being dug up? It was only a few seconds, but it sure looked like they were unearthing a grave rather than digging one to me.

I feel dim, because I didn’t see Angel’s soul not being replaced this episode coming. I suppose I ought to have, after falling for that trick last week, too(ok, I let myself fall for it while knowing it seemed to easy, but I crave happy endings lately). Oh well, at least I realized that they were ripping off Resident Evil right off the bat that episode a few back…

I’m trying to understand Angelus/Angel, so bear with me, ok? Angel doesn’t remember anything that Angelus does, but Angelus has all of Angel’s memories, which enable him to “lie with the truth,” right?

No, Angel does remember what he did as Angelus-- he just doesn’t seem to remember the Beast or his connection to it. The team thinks that it may be that he’s repressed or blocked the memories somehow, but they’re not sure. The reason Angel was cursed with a soul to begin with was to make him feel remorse for the horrible things he did as Angelus.

So yes, Angel does remember his acts as Angelus, just not this particular set, for reasons unknown. Angelus remembers everything he’s done, both as himself and as Angel.

Although, I must say, it seemed that Angelus was privy to imformation that Angel couldn’t have been, but right now I can’t think of any examples. Did anyone else notice that?

No, Angel and Angelus have identical memories, except when it comes to the beast, for reasons as yet unexplained.

Ok so I had a longer post but in the middle I had a realization.

We saw Cordy give Angelus the message. On screen. We saw the conspiring moment where she offered to steal his safe guarded soul and provided him with what to tell Wes. We are told how it was done as well.

“Maybe he alerted him with some sort of demonic morse code.”

The eye contact right after the deal.

Cordy has a hitchhiker I think and in that moment it contacted Angelus and set it all up.

Fred enters Connor’s room, bearing sandwich and glass of milk. Oh yeah, and a cattle prod.


“Connor, would you like to tell me what you did with your father’s soul?”

Just speculation, but I do think Connor is the prime suspect in the soul theft.

I’ve been wondering how Angel would react to finding out that his peroxided grandchilde has got his soul back. Now I’m wondering how the Peroxided One would react to finding out Angel’s soul has been, er, misplaced.

I agree he’s the most likely suspect, which means almost certainly it wasn’t him.

Revtim, you may be right, but Iwant to see Fred zap him with a cattle prod again just the same.

I wonder- if you cut Connor in two, would each half grow into a complete Connor? What about if you cut him up into little pieces? Would all the pieces grow into a complete Connor, or just the ones that had part of the central nervous system? (Not that we really need any more Connors, it’s just that he strikes me as being kind of a worm… so, I wonder about these things)

The Tim, I am very very partial to your theory.

I thought that line didn’t fit at all, and when I re-watched the ep it just got stupider. Why else would they throw a turkey of a line like that in there, unless it meant something?
Cordy’s been rolling with the 'ettes since Sunnydale. She knows there’s no such thing as “demonic morse code.” It’s not even funny.

My guess is that it’s Lorne (The Host). It’ll be just like when Tara got her name in the opening credits only of the episode in which she is shot and killed.

When Andy Hallet is in next week’s credits, just remember I told you so.


Now, now, they put Amber in the credits for that one episode as sort of a gift and tribute to her. They loved her but she and Mutant Enemy both knew when she was hired exactly when Tara’d be killed. She was thrilled to be in the credits that once and considered it an honor.

I really really do know who dies. Really. But my lips are sealed.

It would be great if this isn’t the real Cordy. Her sleeping with Connor was really yucky.

Personally, I think Connor is going to die, but not yet. Angel having a son is still a good plot device. And I can’t see JW killing off any of the core characters either.

So, I’m thinking it will be someone else we like but is expendable: 1) Lorne (I hope not); or 2) Electra (Gwen); or 3) possibly Gru returning from whence he came; or 4) Lilah, whose heart was two sizes too small but who may yet return to carve the roast beast; or 5) maybe even Darla, assuming she’s not dead already. (I just recently started watching Angel. I know she’s Connor’s mom, right?)