Fiver, you’re going to pay for that awful, awful pun. Big Time. 
Vamps and demons aren’t affected by Jasmines spell.
Connor was affected by the “no demon fighting” spell in the hotel when he and Angel went at it one a while ago. In fact, someone even mentioned, offhand, that incident pointing to the thought that Connor has demon in him.
Hypothesis: Connor was not affected by Jasmine in the first place (closely following this: Connor has no soul.)
I considered that, but it’s got one big problem: If Connor wasn’t ensorceled, why was he being so nice to his dad who he hates? Being all chummy, even singing a song together? I don’t think he has the emotional control or the acting ability (the character, that is) to have faked that.
Yeah, I thought about that. Also- his being able to “hear” Jasmines call. Oh, well.
I still say he’s a demon.
Maybe the antidote part is in Cordys blood and the infected part is in Connors?
This ep hasn’t aired in Canada yet and us Canucks are one ep behind you 'Merricans.
I am so fricking spoiled!
::Does the Filthy Spoiler Whore Hoo-Ha-Diggidy Dance::
You know, having Connor act as a mole would be a great, shining, belly-tickling way of redeeming his character. That is, if the writers actually like him, and have just been pretending to hate his guts since he stopped being bottle-fed. Oh come on, they wouldn’t write anyone they liked that way, would they?
And we know Connor has a soul, thinksnow, because we saw the effect it was having on Darla when he was still in utero.
Angel is a vampire, and he was affected, although he might have a loop-hole through having a soul. If not having a soul would have made him invulnerable to Jasmine’s charms, one has to wonder why she went to such lengths to de-soul him, prior to her birth.
Also, Lorne is a demon, and Lorne is affected by Jasmine.
I think anything can be affected by Jasmine, but vampires and most demons have ideas about “happiness” that is incompatible with a human’s ideas about happiness. Jasmine can either be a messiah to the humans, and preach love and brotherhood. Or she can be a messiah to the monsters, and preach death and destruction. She can’t do both at once, so she focuses on humans, who are both more numerous and (likely) more fun to manipulate.
It’s really quite simple… Connor’s evil, or close enough to make no difference. I mean, has everyone forgotten that he helped sacrifice a virgin two eps ago? He’s gone over to the dark side, and you don’t come back that easily in the Buffyverse. Ask Faith.
Yeah, how the hell did that happen? I used to watch Angel right after Buffy. We used to be ahead, and I’d feel very important because I could say “I know something you don’t know… neener-neer!”
Then we ditched cable because we hate, hate, hate the cable company (hate 'em!).
So I started watching Angel through the bunny ears from some American station. Apparently the “sacrifice the virgin” episode got pre-empted or something, so now Canada is a week behind? Is that what happened? Not that it really affects me now that I watch through the bunny ears, but I ended up missing the episode in which Fred first saw Jasmine’s true face.
Yes, Eats_Crayons, that ep was pre-empted for some reason - both Angel and The Dead Zone were supposed to air, but the New VR aired a notice saying the regularly scheduled program “was not available”, and aires re-runs of Adventure, Inc. instead. Not that I cared about The Dead Zone. Why did they do that? Dunno.
As for Connor being “evil”, I don’t think so. IMO, EvilCordy (who made Connor a man by both making love to him and giving him purpose as her protector) managed to be more convincing than Darla (who he had never met, and obviously felt resentment toward, and was also pre-judged by him as being evil, since she had been a vampire. The boy was raised by Holtz, remember). I shuddered when EvilCordy made her case, because I knew that Darla didn’t stand a chance. The story of most characters in the Jossverse is that they have a choice between good and evil and they take the consequences of what they choose. I think Connor’s character is grating because he can’t choose well. He’s not on level ground with the other characters; his past is so warping that he has no empathy and his view of reality is distorted. No one has ever told or shown him truth, and when they did, something happened to make things go wrong, so how can he have a frame of reference on which to base good choices? This is what makes him so easily manipulated.
He let the girl die because he was completely convinced that one death (hers) could save the lives of others more “worthy”. This is known as “the warrior ethic” and is discussed here, in the context of an S3 BtVS ep.
Also, we will never know whether Connor was capable of actually killing her himself; it was Cordy who delivered the blows. Connor just stood there like a stupid cow.
Not that I love Connor or anything, but I think classifying him as “evil” based on his role in the virgin sacrifice is simplistic.
originally posted by SolGrundy:
And last thing before I shut up about the show: I didn’t think that the timing of the spell’s being broken was inconsistent at all. My take on it was that the spell is broken immediately on contact with the blood, but you still have complete memory of what it felt like to be under the spell. All the characters explained that they still felt a huge sense of loss, even after a week. So when Fred was first exposed, she probably didn’t think much of it and wanted to go on as normal – it wasn’t until she actually saw Jasmine for what she really was that she got convinced that her feelings weren’t just doubts. And Angel was caught up in the heat of the moment; it wasn’t that looking at Jasmine broke the spell for him, it was that it distracted him enough to realize that the spell had been broken.
My comment about this would be that Fred actually did feel a loss, similar to the one described by Lorne, Gunn and Wes. Remember, right after she came out from the washroom and said that she’d bought a new shirt, she was crying, and it was because Jasmine wasn’t there - it was loss she was feeling, but she thought it was loss because Jasmine wasn’t right there to praise her. But I think it was actually loss because Fred wasn’t with Jasmine anymore, if you know what I mean.
That’s my take on it, anyways. I agree with SolGrundy that Angel was distracted for a minute, mad at Fred. He reacted pretty quickly after that though.
Sorry it took me so long to post, I’ve had to avoid these threads till it aired in Canada … grr. We’ll be a week behind till the end of the season, darnit!
Good news!
Signs on Angel getting renewed are pointing to “Yes!”
Note: some season 4 finale and season 5 spoilers in this link (cryptic, but still intelligible and spoilerly):