Angry rant about something I saw on COPS

The BBQ Pit
21

Well I am sure a Police Officer or ADA could answer this better than I can but I’ll try.

Yes, cooperating does help but it usually won’t get you off (depends on the offense). The instance you describe usually transpires after a resistance of arrest/foot or car chase. Which are additional crimes the suspect has now commited. Let alone the traffic violations, endangering the public etc. To top it off, the moron is running for petty violations such as a suspended license.

I have seen many episode where the person confesses to possision of small amount of marajuana or driving without a license and the officer has shown leniency.

22

I agree 100%.

Never consent to a search. Ever. You have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Even if you’re innocent.

I suggest reading a book on what to do (and what to say) during a traffic stop. This is a book I highly recommend.

23

As long as you are innocent, and not dealing with a corrupt cop, what do you have to lose?

Just curious here, maybe I’ll learn something.

24

You have to account for not only yourself, but everyone who has ever been in your car. A case came up recently where a man consented to a search of a car he bought in a police auction, and they turned up several kilos of pot. He frantically claimed the previous owner left it there; now he has to convince a jury of that. An extreme case, to be sure, but who’s to say your kids bratty friend didn’t stuff a joint under the seat, or someone didn’t leave a tiny baggie with detectable residue somewhere?

25

Are you completely innocent of everything? That is, are you sure that no one who’s ridden in your car had a baggie of pot or bottle of prescription medication that fell out of their pocket, that something you carry for repairs doesn’t qualify as ‘burgalry tools’, that your crowbar/tire iron/ice scraper doesn’t qualify as a concealed weapon, that you have incorrectly marked prescription drugs, and that you’re not in violation of any single one of the other dizzying array of laws that you could be breaking?

26

I remember a Fourth of July weekend in Minnesota when I was 18. I was driving down to lakes country to enjoy myself with some friends. I was coming from a state where fireworks are legal to a state where fireworks are illegal.

Lo and behold, I was stopped in a routine drunk-driver/seat belt lookout point. I was sober…I was wearing my belt…I had no contraband on me whatsoever. So, when the cop asked if he could search my vehicle, I consented. What did he find? A single bottle rocket that had slipped behind my sub-box in the trunk. I did not know it was there (hell, I didn’t even know that fireworks were illegal in Minnesota).

I got a $500 fine for letting a cop search my vehicle.

Two years ago, I was pulled over in my driveway after a late night where I was the designated driver. The cop told me that he saw me change lanes without a signal about eight miles back. I knew that wasn’t true…I always signal (even when I’m pulling into my driveway).

The cop asked me if I had been drinking (no), smoking any pot (no), where I had been (out), where I was going (to bed), etc. I gave him one or two word answers throughout. It was 2 AM…I just wanted to sleep. He then proceeded to aske me to get out of the car. He frisked me (found a pack of cigaretts and a lighter…oh no), and asked me to have a seat in the back of my car while he “had a look around in my back seat”. I said, “Hell, no”. He didn’t even ask…he went to go do it without my permission. My first full sentence during the entire ordeal was “You do so much as touch that door handle without a warrant, and I’ll have a subpoena for you to appear in court ready first thing in the morning”. That got his attention…but I was still told to sit in back. After a bit, another car showed up. I fell asleep after that (almost a full hour). When I awoke, the cavalry had arrived.

Eight cop cars had crowded around my driveway. All of my neighbors were peering through their windows to see what the commotion was about. There was a small crowd gathering across the street. I actually thought I was dreaming.

They never did touch my car, though. A friend from high school was one of the officers on the scene…and he was the one who “let me go”. He said something like “I’m going to make sure we don’t ever harrass you like this again. Your vehicle matched the description of a vehicle which one of our informants witnessed leaving the scene of a felony. Over the last hour, we have learned that we cannot obtain a warrant to search your vehicle based on the scant information the informant supplied. However, we have also just learned that a suspect with an almost identical vehicle was taken into custody about ten minutes ago.”

Did I save any time by preventing the search? I doubt a search would have gone any more quickly. The officers were pretty certain they had the right guy, so they would’t have stopped searching until they found something. However,. who’s to say that one of the former owners didn’t stuff some contraband behind one of the door panels? Who’s to say they wouldn’t find anything?

Never let them search. I say again…never let them search.

27

Well, refusing a search would have been futile, and the jury could have interpreted his refusal for a search as a sign he knew what was in the car. A tragic mix up none the less though.

**

Well there are tons of people that don’t have children, or ones that carry illegal substances. If you fall into that category, which I do, then you don’t have to worry about that stuff. I’ll revise what I mentioned before.

As long as you are innocent, and not dealing with a corrupt cop, and don’t have children, what do you have to lose? In the event that your mechanic leaves a baggie in your car, you are screwed whether they search now or later.

It just seems that

is pretty stupid.

Well, if you don’t partake in any illegal substances, have children over 15, or own any firearms or machetes, I would say you’re in damn good shape.

I understand that some bizarre things have happened (leaving your window slightly open on a hot day while it’s parked and someone throws an old baggy in it while walking by?), but aside of that, I don’t see what the benefit is of refusing a search.

There is either an (in the officers opinion) illegal object in the car or their isn’t. Time doesn’t make it magically disappear, so again what is gained by refusing a search?

I know pleading ignorant to the law is no excuse, but I would assume a jury would think someone had more to hide if they refused a search and was busted anyway. Seems like it would be tougher to convince them of ignorance in that case. I’m not saying this is right mind you, I just know I would see it that way.

Perhaps there is some serious legal issue I’m missing, because you all do seem pretty adamant about the whole thing.

28

Well, as mentioned earlier, a previous occupant of your vehicle could have accidently or intentionally, left something in there.

In the case of my father, during a child custody dispute involving my half sister, a person unknown anonymously reported to the police that my dad was smoking crack while driving (utterly ridiculous). The police came, asked my father to consent to search. He said yes. The police found a crack pipe.

Luckily the situation did not end in disaster, but my dad still would probably have been better off if he had just said “No.”

29

So what do you mean?

I have posted this before,I’ll post it again.

When I was eighteen the cops used to stop me at least once a week, they’d proceed to go through my truck,without my permission, then check my shotgun to make sure it wasn’t loaded.

In retrospect I do believe they were taking advantage of the fact that I was young & naive(sp?)

30

You would still have gotten a $500 fine, an hour later, after they got a warrant to search your car.

**

Could there be a slim chance you didn’t because…

**

They would have discovered this anyway.

**

So what you are saying is that if you had let them search from the getgo, and they had found something, you would have let out a big D’oh! because they you were not the person they were looking for, but since they found something, they can now bust you anyway.

I could see this making sense, but I doubt there are many circumstances where initially refusing to let the car be searched, prevents it from not eventually being searched. Yours was the exception not the norm. I would also humbly recommend that all you people spend an hour or so next weekend, to insure that your car is free of hidden baggies, fireworks, and ice scrapers.

**

And if they found nothing? what then?

**

So with that in mind, the next time I buy a car from someone, I will take a few hours out of my life, and elimate that possibilty. Seems much better then the alternatives.

31

Sorry to hear about that, thats a pretty shitty thing to do. The question still remains in my mind, how would the outcome have differed if he had said “No”? The crackpipe would have physically remained in the car, only to be found at a later time, no?

32

I don’t see the benefit of accepting a search. If it’s my car, and they don’t have sufficient reason to search, they don’t need to search it. That’s that. I don’t need to prove that I’m innocent, and I don’t need to do anything that could theoretically incriminate myself.

What if I have my collection of porno magazines in the back and I don’t want the cop getting his greasy hands on them and embarresing myself in the process?

Well, maybe I’ll look later on and find it, and then dispose of the illegal goods in a discrete manner without getting into legal trouble?

Irrevelevant. The prosecution can’t use the fact that a defendant has exercised their consitutional rights against them.

See point above. They can’t use the exercise of constitutional rights against you, and if they did I’m fairly certain it would not hold up on appeal.

I’m rather insulted by the assumption that just because I don’t want my person, houses, papers, and effects free from unreasonable searches and seizures, I MUST be guilty.

33

And what would the probable cause supporting the search warrant have been?

34

Well, for one thing I think you’ll never solve the drug problem on the supply side. It’s demand that needs to be worked on.

I have doubts that any potential buyers of that cocaine will go drug free because that particular shipment being busted, or any particular shipment for that matter.

Not that I would support setting major drug traffickers free. I just believe that big drug busts have little real effect on the drug problem other than as a symbolic one.

35

They wouldn’t have gotten a warrant. There was no probable cause to search my car.

**

No. I handle driving as seriously as I would handle a firearm.

**

**

Point only being that they did not have the right to rummage through my personal belongings. I had two guitars and two amplifiers in my back seat (which I still had to lug into my house after the ordeal was done) which I did not want any one of those cops to touch.

**

Like a bottle rocket that I had unintentionally smuggled in from a state where fireworks are legal to a state where I was ignorant of the fact that fireworks are illegal? Believe it or not, I detest fireworks. I have never set off a bottle rocket, a smoke bomb, or a sparkler in my life. The bottle rocket in the trunk was not mine. I took responsibility for the bottle rocket becasue it was in my possession by paying the fine.

Truth be told…I don’t want strangers rummaging through my things. I have a gibson hollow-body for which I payed a pretty penny. It is nice and safe sitting in its case in the back seat. However, I can be certain that one of the objectives of the officers was to see what was in that case. That would involve taking the guitar out into the freezing cold and snow. I think not. You’re going to need a warrant to do that…even if it’s a cheap box of tissues.

**

I sincerely disagree here. There are very few occasions where the police are going to try to get a search warrant, let alone be successful. Refusal to allow a search is not probable cause to allow a search.

**

As I mentioned before, I would have been taking a risk that equipment could have been damaged. The equipment is not the issue, though. If the police had enough information to nab me, they would have nabbed me. They had no business holding me up for over an hour outside my own house with no probable cause…just as they have no right to search a vehicle that is pulled over on the side of the road. I have been asked numerous times for a search by a cop. When I was young and naive, I would comply. The bottle rocket incident made me change my mind. Nine times out of ten, the cop will just forget about the search as soon as I say no.

**

You ever try to put one of those door panels back on?

36

The 4th Amendment law on searches in cars and in particular what they can do in the context of an administrative search like a roadblock is pretty complicated, and it is obvious that you don’t know what you are talking about. If you want to consent, go for it. Me, I wouldn’t consent to a damn thing. Always be polite, be firm, know your rights and force the police to respect you.

37

I think we have some ignorance to fight.

38

Did you read my post before responding to it? You certainly don’t seem to have, since you left off ‘have ever had anyone in your car who partakes of illegal substances, have ever had anyone in your car who uses prescription medication, own anything that could qualify as a weapon such as a knife, tire iron, crowbar, screwdriver, etc., own any tools that could qualify as burgalry tools’ and probably some others. You can pretend that I said something other than what I said, but anyone can scroll back up and compare what I wrote to what you responded.

The primary benefit of refusing a search is that you don’t have someone pawing through your stuff.

No probable cause + No consent = no search. You seem to have some strange idea that the police can search anyone anytime they feel like it and have that search hold up in court, but it’s simply not true.

If a prosecutor even mentions it, much less makes the argument, he’s very likely giving grounds for the case to be thrown out on appeal.

It’s sad how many people seem to want to live in a police state.

39

The people who don’t consent to searches when they have no reason not to?

Idiots. Goat felching losers that would be more than happy to suck up the time and manpower of the police while murderes and rapists get more time to run.

If I’m driving a car, and I get stopped, as long as I know there is nothing illegal in my car (and I will know. Count on that) I have no reason to say no. Doing so is like waving a flag at a bull.

All the so called “Civil Libertarians” who refuse to let their cars be searched are also, I have found, the ones who bitch the loudest that the cops aren’t responding quickly when someone is blaring their music too loud.

Maybe if the cops weren’t wasting their time with grandstanding losers, they would have gotten their quicker.

40