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What makes you think refusing a search would have been futile? If the police have probable cause to search your car, they don’t need your permission. They can search your car on the spot without a warrant. They might have called a canine unit out, they might have shrugged and let him go.
The point is, if you refuse, unless they call a canine unit out and the dog indicates that you have drugs in your car, they don’t search later. They don’t search at all.
The police want to spend an hour and a half going through every item in my car looking for drugs and illegal weapons with no probable cause to do so and I’m the one wasting their time?
Oh, that doesn’t include me then. I have the reason that I don’t want to risk some technical violation being discovered, or some illegal substance from another person, plus the reason that I value my privacy and don’t want people pawing through my stuff. Do you mind if I go poke through you car, your pockets, or your house if the mood strikes me? Why should I respond to a policeman who has no justification for a search any differently (if he has justification, he doesn’t need consent)?
How in the Hell is it the fault of the victim of a police fishing expidetion that the police are wasting their time wanting to search with no probable cause? Hell, if anything refusing a search will make the police waste less time!
How, exactly is it like waving a flag at a bull? Are you asserting that a citizen requesting that a cop follow the law is a justification for said cop to break the law? Because if the cop doesn’t have probable cause he’s going to have to let you go without a search, and if he does have it then your consent is not neccesary for him to search the vehicle. If the cop is asking to search, he obviously thinks you’re doing something wrong and is looking for something to charge you with, so it’s not really relevant that he might want to charge you with something.
You seriously don’t see any difference between wanting the police to respond to a violation of the law with very obvious probable cause and wanting the police to only search your property if they have probable cause?
It’s really sick that people who excercise basic constitutional rights are ‘grandstanding losers’ in your worldview. “My god, that man didn’t let the police do a cavity search on him! What a sicko, he’s waving a red flag at a bull!”
hmm, if Johnny Bacon is wasting his time with innocent bambie-eyed me and there’s a call about a murderer rampaging through the city with a bottle of tequila in one hand and a rocket launcher in the other. I think the avg person, thats is to say a person without skewed fucking logic, would lay blame to Johnny Bacon
I am sorry you have this tremendous fear of cops…
Thats a pretty big fucking brush you have there, is it horse-hair or synthetic?
Again, if JB is wasting his time looking through my car…
The way I see it (and I am probally wrong) is that a search should only be used to find further evidence of the crime that originally lead to the police being involved. For instance, if I get pulled over for running a stop light, searching my trunk would not provide any further evidence that I ran said stop light. I have and will continue to refuse searchs for the simple matter of it is my car and I don’t want you going through it. I feel that police should be reactive not proactive, but that is a whole other matter. I understand that some big criminals have been caught due to searching cars after a traffic stop, and I think that the police should have the right to ask for consent for a search. If you want to grant that consent, go right ahead. 99.9% of the people searched will have nothing and will be thanked and sent on their way. For me, it is just a personal thing. To second what Riboflavin mentioned, it is very sad to see so many people wanting to live in a police state. When the police begin walking through your front door without warning and without proper warrant just to “look around”, just take a look back where it all began.
that last one should read :
"Again, if JB is wasting time with trying to look through my car"…
Bingo. The cop can do some basic stuff after pulling you over for a traffic violation, including issuing a ticket or warning, checking you for outstanding warrants, and giving you the once-over for obvious signs of impairment, but once he gives your license and registration back to you, you should get the heck outta there and refuse anything along the lines of: “Y’know, there’s a lot of drug traffic moving up and down this road. I wonder if you might let have a quick look-see through…”
The rest of the pitch should be drowned out by the sound of you pulling away.
World Eater is focussing on the best-case scenario (the cop really does take a “quick look-see” consisting of a cursory five-minute search) and ignoring all the potential worst-case scenarios (the cop takes every single loose item out of your car, stacking them up on the road’s shoulder in the rain, and finds a old package of foot-powder etc.). Since you have absolutely no way of knowing in advance which version will occur, your consenting to a search puts you at the mercy of this particular police officer, who may or may not be all that competent.
I wouldn’t agree to a purchase contract that let the seller deliver a million units, or none, at his discretion, and I won’t consent to a search with results that can only range from neutral to really really bad.
Oh fucking please. Point out where I am campaigning for our constitutional rights to be stripped away. From my apparently limited point of view on the matter, I simply thought if I’ve got nothing illegal in my car, it’s better to search away so I can be on my way. Evidently there are far more contingencies and rules of due process that I was aware of, and it’s not the simple black and white issue I thought it to be. In any event that hardly constitutes a desire to live in a police state you numbfuck.
Oh fucking please. Point out where I am campaigning for our constitutional rights to be stripped away. From my apparently limited point of view on the matter, I simply thought if I’ve got nothing illegal in my car, it’s better to search away so I can be on my way. Evidently there are far more contingencies and rules of due process that I was aware of, and it’s not the simple black and white issue I thought it to be. In any event, that hardly constitutes a desire to live in a police state you numbfuck.
was not aware of
OK, let’s have a quick review of the US consitution:
You think it’s bad for someone to desire to be secure against unreasonable searches as evinced by your comments about people who do not consent to searches that that person and the courts consider unreasonable.
A search of a vehicle can take hours, so even ignoring your blatant disregard for basic civil liberties your decision is the wrong one. If all you want to do is save time, then don’t consent to the search so you don’t end up spending two hours handcuffed in the back of a squad car while every item in your car is laid out on the roadside. What do you think a search of a vehicle entails anyway, just a quick look in the trunk for dead bodies?
Yeah, that 4th amendment tends to annoy people who think the police should just cavity search everyone on a whim.
Well, Dipshit, looks like you forgot your own words (quoted below). You explicitly said that you would assume that someone was guilty if they had the temerity to assert their 4th amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure. Anyone who believes that a desire not to have random strangers pawing through private property on a whim believes in living in a police state whether they admit it or not.
I would never consent to a seach because I don’t know everything that is and isn’t legal. I don’t have anything obviously illegal like drugs, but there’s a lot of things which could be illegal and I am just ignorant about it. By giving the cops permission to search, you give them permission to look for anything at all that is illegal. But if you make them get a search warrent, they have to explicitly state what they are looking for.
For example, say I have a half-full gas can in my trunk. I don’t really know if there’s some law about how to legally transport gas so I don’t think I’m doing anything illegal. But maybe my can isn’t of the proper dimensions and the cop writes me up for that (I know it’s a contrived example). Or maybe I have a leatherman in my glovebox and for some legal reason that’s considered an unlicensed concealed weapon. Or maybe there’s an empty beer can under the seat and he’ll get you for an open container violation. By giving permission to search, you’re basically saying, “Look over everything and bust me for whatever you find wrong.” If they get a search warrent, it will say what they are specifically looking for (like drugs).
If I was asked for consent, I would tell the cop “Sir, I support the police and I don’t want to make your job any harder, but I fully support my civil liberties and will not consent to the search.”
Everyone knows that we would all be better off if we never cooperated with the police. Huh?
I have never understood this “the police are our enemy” thing that seems to be going around. Mybe it comes from people who had some wild teenage years or something. I am not sure. Personally, I like the cops, and I would hate to live in Texas if they were eliminated. Sure, some are idiots, but what group doesn’t have a few?
Do yourself a favor, NEVER quote your rights to a member of the Harris County (Texas) Sheriff’s department on the side of the road.
Your rights are as follows:
You have the right to shut up.
You have the right to bleed.
You have the right to fall down the stairs 50 or 60 times (in the 1 story jail).
I am sure that your rights will be addressed by the judge (on monday), and you may in fact be correct, but on the side of the road, the key to a long and hassle free life is cooperation!
if I am asked for consent to search my vehicle and I refuse to give consent and the cops are interested in conducting a search, I ASSURE YOU that my vehicle WILL be searched BEFORE it leaves the scene.
When I was younger, I was always running my head about my rights, age has shown me that right, wrong or otherwise pain and hassle SUCK!.
unclviny
Oh,Oh I know this one its called a “strawman” arguement, no?
No-one said anything about not cooperating with Johnny Bacon under any and all circumstances…
Dont you mean Hazzard county?
I’ll keep that in mind if I’m ever in Bowss howg’s county…
Houston is mostly in Harris county, Texas.
I think it’s an ass-hair brush.
Oh boy <sigh>
No. Please quote where I said it was bad. You seem to think that I want these rights done away with. I was saying what I would do in a situation, and questioned why people would want the additional hassle of not cooperating with the police. Some dopers where quick to point some facts out that I was not aware of, and you where quick to point out how much shit spews out of that asshole under your nose.
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Me making a choice and giving them permission to search my car is blatantly disregarding my civil liberties?
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I say “yes search my car”, and they handcuff me and throw me in the back of a squad car for 2 hours. I say “no, you’ll need a warrant”, and they let me go on the spot?
Did it ever dawn on you that any cop that handcuffs you and lets you rot in the back of his car for a few hours while he rips your car to pieces and jams on your guitars he found in the trunk, will most likely make your life equally as miserable for not consenting to a search?
In other words If a cop is a dick, you’ll lose both ways. You don’t seem to realize this.
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Where did I say this? Is it such an epoch shattering concept that I assumed if you are innocent and have no illegal substances in the car, that consenting to a search will get you on your way faster?
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God your such a dick. Random strangers pawing through private property are in fact officers of the law doing their jobs. Whether they are doing their jobs correctly or not, I’ll guess, is a matter for the court to decide. I won’t lie, if I was on a jury, and the guy refused a search of his car and then was busted with some coke in it or whatever, it would appear to me that the person knew it was in there. THIS WOULD NOT MAKE THEM AUTOMATICALLY GUILTY, BUT IT WOULD MAKE AN IMPRESSION IN THE BACK OF MY MIND (Just so you didn’t miss that I said that) I’ve now learned that prosecutors can’t make whether they consented to a search or not known, so it seems to be a moot point.
Btw I don’t want a police state, please keep that in mind.
If you find yourself in this situation you should always assert your rights, even if you’ve done nothing wrong. Why? Well think about it… If everyone allowed a cop to search their vehicle, after a while cops would think they have the right to do it. We need citizens to constantly remind cops that we have rights and that there are limits to their authority.