In the tradition of Godwin’s Law, I propose Lewinskification Hypothesis: the longer a disagreement over U.S. political scandal, non-penetrative sex, or perjury should last the closer the probability of Bill Clinton’s blow job becoming a discussion point approaches 1.
Miller, I posted my question before seeing the second quote. I apologize for being human.
You, of all people, should no that humanity is no excuse.
I suspect most of us could agree that what was going on in each case were things the Catholic Church would not approve of…
Not to be too much of a prick, but you’re coming perilously close to Bill Clinton’s logic. Remember that he, concerned to be able to claim plausible deniability, sought out and obtained a definition of ‘sex’ that limited it to intromissive intercourse, and then truthfully denied having had ‘sex’ – by that definition. Voluntarily having another person not one’s wife, while married, bring one to orgasm for the purposes of sexual pleasure would for me qualify as adultery, regardless of the method used. ‘Lucien’ could have sat a yard away and tickled his penis with an ostrich plume, never having actually touched him where skin touches skin, and it would be adulterous.
I plead guilty and throw myself on the mercy of the court.
ETA: Bricker, I apologize; I had not seen that extensive exchange on Clinton when I began composing my post responding to you above. Well said, sir.
This might be a first, but I will come in defense of Bricker. He was not being legalistic, he was merely explaining the sort of mental contortions that Mr. I Am So NOT Gay! must go through to convince himself that he can, in fact, enjoy when another man massages his genitals and still not be gay.
And I agree that at some point “sexual activity” does not mean the same as “sexual relations”. If my doctor had asked my 19 yo self if I had had sex I would have truthfully answered no. For medical purposes the sexual activities I had been involved in were irrelevant. My father, I am sure, had a different definition.
If I take a rentboy to Europe unbeknownst to my husband, it wouldn’t have mattered if we had really spent the time reading the holy gospel (unlikely as that is). It is bad enough without the sexual component. Sometimes there is a transgression without sex, but most likely this type of transgression almost certainly mean that somebody was “hiking some trails”, ifyaknowwhatImean.
As my mom would say, “if isn’t bad, why did you hide it?”.
And the details just keep spewing forth.
http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2010/05/_despite_what_anti-gay_evangel.php
And according to the story Rekers never, ahem, climaxed, so I guess that just complicates the question of whether he did or did not have sex.
Think ya could see yer way ‘round to gettin’ yer current senator to doin’ the same to New York Senator Charles Shumer? I’d pay good money to see that.
Especially the part about a written contract. Is that normal when hiring a rent boy? Seems pretty risky, if you are a famous anti-gay preacher!
(Rather like the right-wing republican governor candidate we had some years ago, who paid for his mistresses abortion with a personal check! Some things are best not done in writing!)
I’d take pity on him and piss the fire out.
[Oops, did I just piss on you? Sorry, dude… :rolleyes:]
First of all, I don’t think a handjob is “sex,” but I’m flabbergasted that there are people who wouldn’t call a handjob adultery.
Of course not. He has a cigar…
Why does this thread’s subject suggest waaay too many cheesy jokes? I guess the assholes should learn to keep their pants zipped, and pulled up at the back. [Crack Kills!]
They would just be following his example, right?
A Rusty Trombone is most certainly adultery. It is also disgusting. Don’t look it up.
"Lucien"s statement that
is a throwback to the earlier pre-Lewinskification question about how escorts are legal. Make no mistake- he’s a prostitute, albeit an upscale one as opposed to the “Hey dude, wanna party?” on the street variety, but while the guy/gal who offers to suck your dick for $25 can’t be taken as selling anything other than sex the escort has (filament thin but legally real) plausible deniability: “He paid me for my time, and since I liked him I- completely unrelated to the financial transaction- had sex with him.”
A woman I once knew who’d worked as an escort in Manhattan was employed through an upscale agency. She said she was actually treated very well by the agency- it wasn’t a pimp situation at all- she was accompanied to every assignment by a ‘tough guy’ who made sure she wasn’t walking into a trap and who knew better than she the giveaway signs of a sting and he gave the “you understand you’re paying for this lady’s time, right?” She was paid something like $20 per hour for her time, though the “tip” was about $300 per hour. She had the right to refuse to do anything she didn’t want to do with any client, though if that happened she got the $20 only and of course if she did it more than occasionally she’d be dropped from the escort agency’s rolls. She said the woman who ran the agency had been an escort before she got a bit long in the tooth and had only rarely had any problems with the cops- again, it’s just too low pri.
Missed the edit window, but a bit more detail than the last:
"Lucien"s statement that
is a throwback to the earlier pre-Lewinskification question about how escorts are legal. Make no mistake- he’s a prostitute, albeit an upscale one as opposed to the “Hey dude, wanna party?” on the street variety, but while the guy/gal who offers to suck your dick for $25 can’t be taken as selling anything other than sex the escort has (filament thin but legally real) plausible deniability: “He paid me for my time, and since I liked him I- completely unrelated to the financial transaction- had sex with him.”
A woman I once knew who’d worked as an escort in Manhattan was employed through an upscale agency. I don’t think these are as common for men- they tend to go more on their own- but they are fairly common for women since
1- the risks of rape and violence are higher (though these risks aren’t non-existent with male escorts)
2- there’s a much larger market (since there are more straight guys than gay guys in non-religious industries)
3- name recognition is a big part (just as with brothels everyone knew “Miss Lula’s” is the best in a certain town, they would know that Sidney Biddle Barrows Agency or whoever was a discretion and class assured agency in wherever)
She said she was actually treated very well by the agency- it wasn’t a pimp situation at all- she was accompanied to every assignment by a ‘tough guy’ who she called her "driver’ even though he didn’t usually actually drive her since this was NYC; usually they just shared a cab. He was there to make sure she wasn’t walking into a trap and who knew better than she the giveaway signs of a sting and he gave the “you understand you’re paying for this lady’s time, right?” She was paid something like $20 per hour for her time, though the “tip” was about $200 per hour from which she gave the agency about half, part of which went to pay her ‘driver’. The driver was and wasn’t there to intimidate- he was as discreet as she was, but it’s a not subtle but also not unwarranted “Anything happens to her, you gonna see me again” message.
She had the right to refuse to do anything she didn’t want to do with any client, though if that happened she got the $20 only and of course if she did it more than occasionally she’d be dropped from the escort agency’s rolls. She said the woman who ran the agency had been an escort before she got a bit long in the tooth and had only rarely had any problems with the cops. It’s just too low pri and it can be difficult to get a conviction if there hasn’t been actual sex and money exchanged, because again- it’s not like a street whore who’ll say “$50 for [sex act here]”, and one of the key things the clients are paying for is this discretion so they’re ready to play the game.
Some escort agencies accept credit cards. There have been scandals- a lot of them actually- in which charges to escort agencies were deducted as business expenses on taxes, usually as some sort of consulting or business entertainment expense (which, often, it is- out of town businessmen are the bread and butter of most escort agencies and it’s always been a practice from some companies to take extra special care of their clients.
At the risk of being accused of being legalistic:
I guess I can be a pedant as well when the occasion demands of me:
Adultery – Definitions:
From link in quote:
– underline mine.
As should be obvious, we’re speaking of the former definition here.