But the Jerry Lewis/ Jerry Lee Lewis side rant is The Funniest Thing Ever. Add that to the original hot pizza and good service rants-- it’s pure Pit gold.
The telemarkerter rant is still pretty good.
Gaudere– Ever heard of hyperbole? 
The Ace of Swords
Yeah, where did that little bitch get off not bending over and taking it from Bubba? People start doing that and it might upset the whole hierarchy.
Frankly, there’s nothing wrong with moderators (that perhaps a little electro-convulsive therapy wouldn’t cure) but for the most part moderators take the tone of whatever board they happen to be on. Some boards, like the Cyber Soap Box are completely unmoderated and anarchy doesn’t result. In fact, being unmoderated eliminates much of the tension and bad feelings moderators can provoke. I assume so they have more to moderate. Some boards have sane moderators, like the JRef forums or the Internet Infidels. They rarely inject themselves into a discussion unless it is warrented. It’s difficult for most people to wear both the opinionated poster and moderator hat at the same time and not do both poorly. And some forums have terrible, forum-killing moderation, like the Darwin Awards forum, which routinely leads to insurrections and much flaming until troops are called in to indiscriminately fire into the crowds.
Of course, the Darwin Awards isn’t surprising, because, after all, it’s a site devoted to making fun of stupid dead people and the denizens there must tend to both think of themselves superior and be rather callous.
Makes me interested in seeing what the “community” is like on a board attached to a site that has been “Fighting ignorance since 1973”. Must make some people long for some ignorance to fight, even if they have to manufacture it themselves.
Which is terrible when it is a moderator doing it, wearing both hats:
Me: Remark
Moderator: Stupid opinionated comment and/or provocation that could only come from someone born with the umbilical cord around their neck
Me: Points out stupidity
Moderator: Points out moderator status
Me: Forgets to bow
Moderator: Baroooooom!
The very shortest period from posting to banning I have ever experienced was on the Ann Coulter forums, filled with ass sucking little bastards who consider that blond right-wing bitch attack bimbo to be a living goddess. How? I simply pointed out her being wrong and ludicrously unprepared on a talk show where she made the idiotic comment that being muslim is itself tantamount to being a terrorist.
Baroooom!
Well, better to die on your feet than live on your knees, especially when you consider who you will have to kneel to.
Face it: Many people get to be moderators not because they are pillars of erudition, logic and decency, but because they are sycophantic little twerps with enough time on their hands to waste it making sure other people dot their Is and cross their Ts.
Some aren’t, but a significant number of moderators are just like that and it can lead to nothing less than filtering out all the interesting, freethinking posters and ensure that a board reaches the harmony of no poster being more intelligent than the stupidest moderator.
At which point the board is ready to move to the jungles of Guyana.
Gaudere,
I suppose we are discussing whatever we choose to discuss. If I grant you that storming off in a huff was a childish thing to do, and taking the poster at his word is justified, we are still left with the comments that led up to this melodramatic anti-climax. It’s my opinion that Nocktober was goaded. Again, that assumes that there isn’t more to the story that I’m not privy to.
I doubt most of us would be quite as affected by DavidB’s comments, but then again most of us aren’t newly arrived here. In any event, Nocktorber’s thin skin and enforced departure don’t excuse what certainly appears to be a moderator’s own bad behavior. Since we are employing awkward analogies, that is a bit like acquitting pre-emptive police brutality when we later find out the suspect might be prone to violence.
I’ll thank you to leave me out of this. I had nothing to do with it.
David’s behavior–excluding the I’m-a-mod comment for a sec since naturally other posters cannot say the same–would have been acceptable in any other poster in GD, barring extenuating circumstances. So analogizing it to police brutality is not reasonable, unless everybody’s allowed to whack away with billy-clubs.
IIRC, the only comment he made that we would not accept from another poster is (paraphrase) “hey, I’m a mod, listen to me re posting protocol instead of insulting me.” Which, eh, I don’t see anything to get upset about, it’s something I might say, and I’m notoriously mild-mannered. The way I see it, Nocktober had a run-in with one of our more argumentative GD posters, called someone a jerk, said he was leaving forever, and then called someone a jerk again. Pity he had to insult and that he feels he must leave forever, but banning someone who’s never coming back is pretty much a non-event in my eyes.
Is David argumentative and ornery at times? Yep. More so than other GD posters? Don’t think so. Am I going to be just fine with booting someone who says “you suck, I’m going away forever!” Most likely.
Now, you can accuse David of behaving poorly even if his behavior is acceptable under the GD rules, that’s fine, someone doesn’t have to break the rules to be pitted for impoliteness or lousy attitude. However, as far as adminstrative questions (Is the banning acceptable? Are Mods being allowed to break rules and then ban posters for returning fire?) I hope I have clarified the issues somewhat.
Gaudere
You probably remember this. I certainly remember having a very thin skin and being very afraid of DavidB when I first came here in '99. In my very first GD thread, he came at me like a charging bull, and I mentioned in my response that I was concerned about confronting him since he was a moderator. He seemed to take offense, and informed me that moderators are members like anyone else and are free to debate, and that when he intended anything to be an official pronouncement, he would identify it as such. He also told me to develop a thick skin if I wanted to hang around.
Sure enough, I noticed that despite his untamed belligerence, he never — until now — pulled the kind of side-armed moderatorial slam that he pulled on Nocktober. He had always put on his “moderator hat” to make official pronouncements and warnings. In fact, when you became a moderator, you used the same style: [MODERATOR HAT ON] … [MODERATOR HAT OFF]. There was never any doubt, thanks to that hat, about whether DavidB was being an ordinary jackass or being a mod.
In this particular case, he never said that he was speaking in any official capacity. He never put on his mod hat. He was just his typical bull-in-a-china-shop self. And in fact, Ogre had already cursed at DavidB and told him to cool his “freaking jets” for his “single logical bone in your entire body” remark.
That’s the reason I pitted this. Had DavidB warned Nocktober in an official capacity, it would have been a bit bizarre but still in keeping with years of precedent. Instead, he did exactly what he had assured me he would never do — he threw around his weight as a moderator without speaking officially. He pointed out how “moderator” is under his username, and that Nocktober ought to tread carefully when addressing moderators, but never once assumed an official role in his discussions about it.
That’s never happened before that I recall. In fact, I’ve never seen any moderator give an official opinion without in some way identifying it as such. And now we have a precedent where a heated discussion just like the ones we see all the time may result in a banning if it just happens that one of the members has “moderator” under his username.
If Great Debates is going to be DavidB’s private little playground now, let us know. But don’t say that he didn’t screw up here unless you want us to feel paralyzed about debating with him. He has blurred the line between DavidB the user and DavidB the moderator. How will we know now whether he’s spouting off his opinion or laying down the law?
I’ve thought users have been disrespectful toward me, and I’ve told them so. But it certainly carried no official weight. If DavidB is going to pull rank, he needs to wear his rank insignia when he does it.
I can’t comment on the banning; I don’t know if there were more circumstances than those in the Hollow Earth thread (I hope there were). But the way some people respond to questions here lately, like the way people did in that thread, is really starting to fucking piss me off.
In this case, even though the OP may not have had a great amount of knowledge about it, there are obviously some people out there who believe in the Hollow Earth theory, and it would have very easy to mention counter proof. Obviously, since some people helpfully did just that.
But others felt the need to “score points” off the OP.
I’ve been noticing this shit a lot from people here lately, that thread is just one example. Does it make you people feel superior? Smarter? What? However it makes you feel, I can assure you it makes you look like an absolute unsufferable snob-wannabe prick.
There is no excuse. Start trying to help fight ignorance, instead of chasing it away.
Beelzebubba
I’m sorry. It’ll be our little secret.
/astroglide
Somewhat. I can see your perspective, and everything you said would make perfect sense for the average poster, or even a moderator or administrator participating as as poster. You probably wouldn’t have to look hard to find me making similar comments about fringe theories. But here’s where I would take issue:
A warning, and an indication that all the preceding posts were of an ‘official’ nature. For what? Being a bit confused? Citing the don’t be a jerk rule?
And no, I’m not one of those who thinks DavidB should be publicly flogged or stripped of his stripes. He’s allowed mistakes just like the rest of us… just like Nocktober should have been. Something to consider, I’m not trying to be overly critical.
I read his pointing out the “moderator” as saying “hey, look, I know what I’m doing on this board, maybe you should listen to me”, similar to a long time poster pointing out his post count when arguing that they know how the board generally operates. He did say Nocktober shouldn’t insult him, but well, that’s quite true…no personal insults in GD, whether directed at mods or posters. And also he also says you shouldn’t try to tell mods what the rules are, which seems pretty commonsensical.
Not at all. Nocktober posted a personal insult, said he was never coming back and then insulted again. That’ll get anyone banned no matter who it’s directed at unless I have reason to believe it is aberrant behavior. e.g.:
“Hey Lib, you’re a jerk”
“Don’t call me a jerk.”
“Fine, I’m leaving forever! You jerk!”
That was not just a heated discussion, that was two rule violations, the second being an escalation and flaunting of the first, and a promise to never come back; and as I have previously noted I feel little compunction about locking the door behind posters who decide to bolt out of the forums, slamming the door behind them. I feel your characterization of the incident is flawed.
Other mods post official comments without using “hats”, and I haven’t noticed Dopers being paralyzed with fear. I think the Mod hats are a good idea, but other mods don’t bother and it seems to have done no great harm. Like here and here and here. I’d find more but the boards are slow.
Erm, just so’s you’ll know…I’ve been here three years now, and I have yet to see any of the SDMB moderators behave like “sycophantic twerps”. Oh, yeah, some of them are occasionally jerks and assholes, but “sycophants”? “Twerps”? Not in a million years, Sparky.
We got us a remarkable group of John Wayne Larger-Than-Life cowboy mods here. They may spit on the floor and cuss a blue streak and and occasionally shoot from the hip with very little regard for women and children, but they sure as hell don’t kiss ass, they don’t suck up, and there sure ain’t a single twerpy bone in any of their collective pixelated bodies.
Word.
And as for making sure people dot their Is and cross their Ts, well, I’ve seen very little of that, actually. It’s pretty much a free-for-all here, 24/7, and as long as you stick to the basic ground rules, you can leave as many Is undotted and Ts uncrossed as you want, and the mods won’t say a word to you.
Duck Duck Goose
Nice example of ignoring context:
That’s nice. Your implication that I was talking about the moderators on this board relies on removing the context that I was referencing a number of different boards. For example, the Darwin Awards forum moderators are sycophantic. Why? They have to suck up to the owner of the site, Wendy Northcutt. I was referring to my experiences on other boards.
Chuckles.
That’s also nice. Yee-fucking-haw. Of course, you are just refuting yourself, because I was referring to moderators on other boards. If the moderators on this board are not like that, great. Nothing to do with what I was talking about.
To your mother?
That’s nice. Nothing to do with my experiences though, which is what I was talking about.
Again, there seems to be some weirdness going on where people assume that the Straight Dope is the only forum in existence. Maybe you folks really are ready to pack it in and move to the jungles of Guyana.
Gaudere
Then it is as you say. You’re the boss. But in my obviously worthless opinion, tying what he said specifically to his moderator status was not equivalent to pointing out a post count. What in the world would a member mean if they said, “I have more than 10,000 posts. If I have to deal with you again, I won’t be nearly so lenient.”?
Well, we have to suck up to Cecil, but then, so does most of humanity.
Waverly takes issue to:
I’m not sure what the issue is here. I just did something similar in CoCC. The first infraction gets a polite (even friendly) statement to a newbie, helping them to learn what’s what. When they deliberately flaunt that and spit in the Mod/Admin’s eye, the second statement need not be gentle. Sometimes, the second “statement” is an action – like, the boot – rather than a restatement.
Do we get some newbies here who deliberately flaunt the rules, despite warnings? Sure. Do we get some newbies who inadvertently slip into jerkdom and banned status? Sure, it can happen. They can appeal to the Mods and Admins, and we are usually forgiving if someone seems truly sorry.
Circle the wagons.
Firstly, what DDG said. On this site, the moderators aren’t syncophants. You can find instances of them suffering from … wait for it … the effects of their nature as humans, but find me someone who hasn’t and I’ll give you a cookie. Moderation on other MBs tends to be rather less than exemplary for the reason that those MBs tend not to attract the same general crowd this one does (with noted exceptions I’m sure Lib and others could show).
You can, however, take that ECT suggestion and put it right where it came from. ECt has no problems fitting into spaces either large or small, so if you suffer from rectum grandum, no worries:)
Mmm … no, but thanks for the idea. We get enough crappola from people who feel their experience at other (admittedly poorer) MBs make them able to jump right in here.
This actually has the beginnings of an intelligent comment, but you forgot two things:
-
A cite, if it actually happened.
-
Intelligence.
Just missing those two things, we should expect the secret to cold fusion from you any day now. You’re only missing two things there, too.
Can’t speak for any of the mods here, but the ones I’ve known on other boards (some started by members here, some not) have in some cases been appointed by the owner/operator of the board and in some cases voted in because of their knowledge and ability to spend time moderating the board. The latter was the case for me when I was at a government simulation MB not quite a year ago. And if you can find the site, I think you’ll be hard-pressed to say I sucked up to much of anyone there.
You might want to put down that 12th cup of coffee, Mykeru. DDG post was, as I took it, mostly just sharing her experiences here, not an attack on you personally. Whatever problems you have with mods on other boards, I don’t know that they belong in this thread. Regardless, I think you were blowing DDG’s post way out of proportion, and maybe a step back and a deep breath would help.
Flaunt and spit? C’mon, Dex. David was blowing snot like a horny bull. He always does. Nocktober cited a rule. David took personal offense after already calling Nocktober stupid. There was a recent discussion about spin, and boy are you making me dizzy!
Not to me. I mean, in court you’re allowed to tell a judge what the law is, even if you’re not a lawyer (so long as you don’t interpret the law for the judge).
In most sports, you’re allowed to remind the official what a rule is (sometimes it has to be through the team captain) so long as you don’t question their judgment.
In the thread, it seemed to me to be a perfectly good time to bring up the “don’t be a jerk” rule.
Here’s a thread where everybody seems to understand what the OP is asking - everybody seemed to get what the “Hollow Earth Theory” was - except DavidB. Other posters even tried to help DavidB understand what the mysterious “Hollow Earth Theory” was, translating the OP for him. Others answered the question in the OP, providing further context for this obtuse concept of a “Hollow Earth Theory.”
But DavidB couldn’t for the life of him get what a “Hollow Earth Theory” might claim.
Thus was unable to muster any response except that perhaps Nocktober might consider that he had no logical bones in his body.
NOTE: I’m not claiming that DavidB is a jerk, because that would be a personal insult. I’m saying that in that instance, he may have been acting in the same way a jerk would.